UK radical feminists; what to do?

I just couldn’t understand the claims that it was a biological reality when it solely rests on using philosophical theories to first destabilise established biological science even from the start.

It is like the entire premise of a male person with surgery somehow becomes a female person? Like WTF… really? There is no logical support even when they desperately try to make something work, it just keeps failing when it comes back to material reality of what defines the sex classes.

The irony is that so many left wing beardy woke blokes just are full on Incels.

MN centres women. This is something that the beardy woke blokes just can't wrap their heads around this, whilst professing just how progressive they are.

It's hilarious.

@RedToothBrush MN didn't radicalise women.

When I had an argument about GI, I was actually accused of being radicalised by MN! How insulting. I said, "I've been a feminist for 50 years and I can think for myself, thank you very much."

However, I will credit MN for handing me so many facts and examples to argue back with - the other person didn't have a single good argument. It was all, "Transwomen have female brains," "Sports - it doesn't make that much difference," and "Toilets - where are they supposed to go?" I.e. let these poor menz have what they want, it doesn't really affect you.

And more than that, calling men women is a category error and affects me existentially. If a transwoman is a woman, I am not. There is absolutely nothing that can be used to define us both, but exclude all other humans.

I still remember the feeling of disconnect at a women’s event while standing holding hands to keep very angry male protesters from walking amongst women gathered. Listening to the things they were yelling at us and thinking none of it was correct.

I turned to the police officer standing there and commented that none of it was even accurate and it was really concerning how deeply they believe it. The demonising is all part of claiming to be vulnerable and being victims.

I can't NC as I have already posted on this thread but in future I shall become MrPrettyDamnCosmic. When I signed up I just chose a random username. I didn't know that I should have chosen a gendered name but see the logic.

Perhaps MNHQ could add a sentence or two on the sign-up page? Something along the lines that as over 90% of MN contributors are female that while males are welcome that it's only polite for a male to choose a name that unambiguously reflects his gender sex.

& not reducing women to their reproductive body parts doesn't delegitimise their right to their own beliefs.

The assertion that accurate sex definitions 'reduce women to their reproductive parts' always suggests that women are not full human beings.

A woman is like a doe or a ewe because she has a female reproductive system.

A woman is like a man because she is human.

Women are very different to each other, and don't necessarily have much in common except for their sex, but because of their sex they sometimes need specific rights and services (regardless of their identity or whether they have taken steps to change their appearance to seem more male).

Everything else is just being human

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@JanesLittleGirl you're too kind, and I did enjoy doing my wee bit with The Fifer!

Yep.

Another thing that genderism has exposed - the way misogyny runs through every level and aspect of society.

I had no idea, as a liberal leftie sex positive feminist that 99% of sex crime was committed by men. Or that 80% of violence is committed by men.

Libfemmery does talk about VAWG but is careful to omit the M at the front. So one is aware of the harms, but remains unclear on the people committing them.

It sounds daft now, but libfemmery had successfully shifted focus from 'women' onto 'kindness for everyone'. You just dont look at the issues from a wider viewpoint. Radfems on MN did radicalised me in that sense.

Thats been very sobering.

Unconscious & internalised misogyny had been another thing I hadnt ever been as aware of prior to hanging out on here. Its now very hard to miss.

Im also going to blame MN for my laxity with punctuation. Because.

Well what a roller coaster this thread has been !!!

Glad we are on even ground at the moment.

I an scrolling past Greta and just following the responses now.

And more than that, calling men women is a category error and affects me existentially. If a transwoman is a woman, I am not.

Exactly. Attempts to redefine the word woman to include any man effectively erases women as a distinct category in society. I keep seeing claims that trans people’s existence is under threat or being debated, a recent example being Amnesty’s “apology”, but it’s actually women’s existence which is threatened and talked about as if it’s not a noun for 51% of the human population, but an amorphous, metaphysical concept.

eta: in response to @SwirlyGates

I an scrolling past Greta and just following the responses now.

Me too. He might as well just have a megaphone and say I love the sound of my own voice. Well I think you're the minority of one, mate.

Same.

That 98/99% was news to me. And then I looked at the prison figures which were so overwhelmingly male.

It's been an education.

Interestingly, I get educated on feminism by Mumsnet, and transactivism just nailed it all home.

As soon as feminism gives you a statistic on male violence, up steps a transactivist to show you exactly how.

Never has a movement so consistently shot itself in the foot.

But gay rights didn't materially affect anyone else. Sure, some people objected, but there was no direct impact on the vast majority of people.

Trans rights affect women and women were not consulted. And this is my point - it has all been imposed with absolutely no discussion, no suggestion of compromise, no empathy for women who say no.

In fact, saying no to males playing in women's sports or coming into the health club ladies locker room will now get you branded "right wing" in many circles.

It is simply a men's rights operation.

It is all just a repeat of the latter half of last year.

Sometimes I stop following these type of treads to avoid ending up on the norty step

i am not as articulate as so many of you here are.

I think MN was helpful in helping me to calm that very dissonance.

Having supported radical feminism, I was finding myself constantly disagreeing with the sex work is work, the self sex objectification is fine because the woman is in control type contradictory discussions. It was like something had disconnected the thought processes and was ignoring the oppression issues that were right there still inherent in those issues but being ignored.

Also, from a practical point of view, it is possible to have sex and or a romantic relationship with somebody of the same sex. Gay rights never strayed from the realms of reality.

However, it is not possible to change sex. Trans women are definitively male.

Going back to the OP, I think the argument was that Europe is more likely to have mixed sex provision for things like saunas, so it is more trans friendly. However, the UK debate has not been framed around whether single sex provision is good or bad. It has been framed around the idea that mixed sex provision can be single sex. That is not possible.

Apropos of nothing, I saw a great burn on a clip of Letterkenny the other day

"Hey buddy have you ever impressed anybody besides yourself?"

Totally. And I think we all know the answer.

@Arran2024 Trans rights affect women and women were not consulted. And this is my point - it has all been imposed with absolutely no discussion, no suggestion of compromise, no empathy for women who say no.

And yet now that we want to reinforce our boundaries, they are all busy consulting with the very people who broke those boundaries, and falling over themselves to apologise to the trans lobby if they are forced to go back to single-sex provision.

PrettyDamnCosmic · Today 13:17
This reply has been deleted

I didn't mention the f-word or the c-word so was it the word paraphila or the suggestion that being "trans" is a mental issue that got my post deleted?

The people reporting posts rarely have the good manners to say they reported something and why. They can do them of course, no issue.

Personally if I report something, I'll say I did it and why.