Brave reporter undergoes inhumane sex test for sports. Brace yourselves.

He's a cheating bloke who ruined the careers of female athletes, along with his male counterparts Niyonsaba, Wambui, Petrillo, Khelif and Yu-Ting to name a few. The effects of male puberty are well-documented with the evidence crystal clear to prove that men, no matter how microscopic their penis, have a significant physiological advantage over women, but you carry on ignoring scientific fact to suit your twisted narrative.

Women and girls have had to put up with this bullshit for long enough and it can't be soon enough that every governing body adopts this practise. And there aren't enough fucks in the world for me to not give that DSD athletes and men in wigs will no longer be able to steal the medals, records, podium places, sponsorship deals, accolades and cherished memories from deserving women and girls.

Seethlaw

That's a very generous interpretation, seethlaw and I'm not saying you're wrong, because you have an insight that I don't.

However, the first thing I would like deadlifter to consider is why they can't drag their eyes of the men in this situation, for even a nanosecond.

If they are a TRA, then it's clear why, of course.

Helle has gone to a great deal of trouble to post detailed data supporting her argument. She simply asked you to return the courtesy by giving data supporting your argument. Instead you insult her.

Rude. And likely to lead us to the conclusion that you have no data.

Incidentally, I suspect you misunderstand the meaning of 'scientific consensus '. It does not mean 'all scientists agree'. It means there is an overwhelming body of data supporting one side of the argument. There will still be some scientints who disagree - partly because anyone can call themselves a scientist.

Waaahhh waaah if only you knew trans people and cared more you wouldn't want competitive sport for women that is taken seriously and isn't viewed as just about participation and inclusiveness.

You would put aside the desires of women to be professional athletes because you'd understand that a small number of transwomen and people with DSDs are more important than 50% of the population and women's sport is an after thought and should be for male who aren't good enough for 'real elite sport'.

After all males with DSDs and transwomen aren't proper men and the second class sport shouldn't be female only it should be second tier humans.

We don't want to talk about biology because this is inconvenient and reveals we don't give a shit about biological issues that affect women. If we did we'd have to change zillions of policies and society as a whole to accommodate this. We'd have to recognise that transwomen still have a fuck load of privilege over actual women and that pregnancy, menopause and other hormone and biological issues related to women are a big deal. That's not fair! That's cruel to remind us. That's female privilege to go through childbirth and get life changing injuries.

We'd have to recognise that women's bits are internal too and not just about attracting sexual partners. That wouldn't be cool. Itd ruin our credibility in saying that being a woman is all about passing or not passing. We totally get that yes biology is a bit more complicated cos human reproduction but we'd rather scream about persecution and genocide than admit how it's really complicated cos identifying this stops our narrative of being the most vulnerable and stops us getting free access to the most vulnerable. And this isn't good for our validation.

We couldn't give a shit that women might have ambitions and want to prove their hard work, stamina and training to the highest standards. We think it's totally legitimate for a male in his 50s to rock up and compete on the same playing field as the most elite women at their physical peak in their 20s and 30s and claim that this represents fairness.

Why? Cos we have a zillion and one reasons why we think women are second class and we should be able to get what we want as males. Cos biology doesn't matter - to me. Being female is irrelevant - to me.

Me, me, me. To hell with what women want. As long as the males think it's fair who gives a fuck about women's sport.

Except MN. The selfish bigots. So I'm going to rabbit on about conspiracy theories and MNetters being out of touch whilst ignoring polling by the most reputable pollsters in the world which show that MN very much is in touch with the general population. Cos that would be yet another factual inconvenience to my demands for 'equality'.

Heh. I know what you mean! I just think that if there's a teeny-tiny chance @Deadlifter might be stuck in the same "But logic! But values! But logic! But values!" loop as I was, then pointing it out might help her extricate herself from it. It's a big if, I know, but you never know :)

If not Deadlifter, I'm sure there will be some lurkers in that loop. Of course lots of us were that lurker once.

This is an act of genocide

Sad times

I see we are now obssesed.
There's another one on the bingo card.
If women aren't well armed with evidence they are ignorant bigots, when they spend time and effort gathering the evidence they are obssesed.

Playing into the hands of the far right too…

That was a masterclass in #OperationLetThemSpeak 🏆

Women can never do the right thing. It's impossible.

We are damned if we do and we are damned if we don't.

Once you realise this, you stop giving a shit what some dumb activist says and just get the fuck on with it without needing the validation and approval. The 'Be kind' shit becomes worthless. If you feel strongly enough about the subject matter you just default to proving the point and not caring if the dickheads don't like it.

It's kinda liberating to cross the point of worrying whether you are going to be called names for demonstrating a perfectly reasonable and moderate position that's recognised by law as being so.

I don't need other people's approval to know what's fair and to understand biology.

Oh… and apparently, if we aren’t currently competing in sport, we don’t actually care about the female sports category and the female athletes, we are just hateful and ignorant. And probably are the ones taken in by pseudo science….

Oh … and if we ask questions and point out issues with a view point, we are just upset and maybe we don’t like to be disagreed with.

Seriously, the list of trope we have not been accused of is kinda small at this point.

Well of course, women aren't gathering and examining evidence, they have to be obsessed because gathering and examining evidence is a transferable skill that can be applied to any number of subjects, whereas obsession conveniently makes us all a bunch of conspiracy theory, er, obsessed hysterical unkind harpies.

I also suspect that exploring discussion points that someone deems as being hateful (when they are reasonable, legitimate and quite common) is not something allowed by those who have polarised tribal politics.

If an athlete finds out they have a previously unknown genetic condition through these tests, would their bigger concern be...

-What are the health and social concerns going forward
-will i have to stop playing netball/swimming/boxing etc in my current team.

How is finding out you have a genetic difference, different to finding out any other previously unknown medical condition which might limit your professional sporting career?

Plenty of actual women have such career ending discoveries. It's part of professional sport.

There is a great comment from someone on Emma Hilton's substack:

Whenever there's a performance enhancing technology that affects fairness for male athletes, consensus is quickly reached so integrity in sport can be maintained. If there was such a thing as animal/human hybrids, like a Cheetah Man, whose performance advantage outstripped elite male athletes, sporting organisations would be quick to recognise that one of these things is not like the other. Either new categories would be created, or Cheetah Man would be barred from competing....

https://fondofbeetles.substack.com/p/the-case-for-sex-screening-in-sport/comments

I would hope that going forward and using this test anyone who finds out something about themself that may be a shock and has to be dealt with somehow will have the surroundings to support them and won't have been sent down the path into womens sports.
It could be awful for very young men and boys with 5ARD who may have been deliberately scouted for and inserted into womens sports to gain accolades for people who don't care that much about their well being. When it comes to talk of unkindness that's the worst sort.

Could the answer be, to have an "open" category which anyone can compete in, and a "female" category restricted to those who are unequivocally female?
Simpe but effective, right?

That's what many sports are doing. Although I recall that when swimming? offered this there were no entries - despite all the years of whining and wailing.

The only conclusion I can draw is that the attraction is both cheating, along with the thrill of demolishing women's sport?

That was World Aquatics. They had a men's (male) category and a women's (female) category and also introduced a further open one for anyone who wanted to identify into that. They took time and trouble to do that. There were no takers, (un)surprisingly.

Adding self-validation to your cheating and thrills.

Exactly.

LOL. I very much hope society manages to extricate itself from this mad immersive fiction and people stop making complete fools of themselves over it.

Exactly.