Brave reporter undergoes inhumane sex test for sports. Brace yourselves.

It’s actually about preserving the integrity of female only sports -it’s not about males with DSDs or trans identities.

We are discussing ALL male people who have sought to access female single sex sports categories when they have male physical advantage

But there isn’t a scientific consensus on whether this test is scientifically meaningful or not. That’s what I’ve said throughout (emotions have come into it for me mainly when people have been hyper-focused on one individual)

The point is though, how is this relevant to female sports?

The experts in the medical fields have for a long time now had the ability to categorise every person into a sex category. They are able to do this into categories that are male or female for the access to female sports.

Declaring that sex is complicated ia a weak and emotionally reasoned argument. The OIC and other sports federations have now done the research. It is actually that straight forward in its application by the sporting bodies.

Do you or don’t you agree with the current OIC regulations to exclude the athletes with the DSDs where a male athlete produces and utilises testosterone at typical male levels?

This isn’t even a post about ‘sex change’ though is it. It’s about DSD and intersex people - are they just collateral for you as you rush to make a point about trans people?

Exactly, “not sporting” literally is a synonym for “unfair”.

A major part of sport fir many is fairness.
They dislike people who dont play fair.
Knowingly playing in a category that you dont qualify for isnt playing fair.

Science is the best way of determining who qualifies for the female category based om measurable effects, not emotions.

“Intersex” is an activist label not a medical one. They are disorders of sex development, you may not like that framing but they are. Some of them are completely unviable for foetal survival. Some of them typically mean people die much younger. Some of them mean you are infertile, some of them you can naturally conceive. Some of them have very little effect in day to day life.

What belief in sex change has shown us is that many extremely intelligent people beclown themselves by believing in it and arguing that it's possible. In the face of all the evidence.

It's genuinely very sad to see.

Well as I was one of those using the term I can explain, seeing as it came out of my head and I actually know what I was thinking.
Here is what I wrote:

How disappointing it will be for those desperate to shriek about genital inspections, how will they cope?

Here is what I meant:

That the TRAs who bang on endlessly about how gender critical women demand genital inspections are going to be disappointed about this test because it's a cheek swab,and they won't be able to use it to call gender critical women perverts.

So, about how gender critical women accused of demanding genital inspections aren't doing any such thing, not about anyone looking forward to it for fetish reasons. If it is my post you are referring to you didn't read anything insinuating any such thing. I said before that I centre women.

Not on Mumsnet, but I have had the experience of explaining what I meant to people who have inferred something incorrectly about what I wrote only to be told that I am wrong and they prefer their own intepretation. I do hope you will do me the courtesy of not doing that, it's very annoying and I am not going to spend any more time and effort on explaining.

Do you think DSDs are a third sex? Or do you think people with DSDs don’t have a sex?

Serious people ARE able to sit with nuance and complexity in my experience! For me, one in every 4500 babies being born with DSD or an intersex condition - though still rare - is enough to convince me that biological sex isn’t completely straightforwardly two categories. For you, it isn’t. I don’t think that makes me less intelligent than you.

As an older woman my extensive sporting career was spent in an atmosphere of "women can't run longer distances, pole vault, lift weights, play football or rugby, ski jumping etc etc. Watching all those barriers fall and women take up and enjoy all the sports that were denied to previous generations has been inspirational.

Only to see it fall apart by a combination of extreme transactivists and useful idiots (usually powerful men on governing bodies) handing over women's sport to sad men demanding women's team places. How any woman can fail to see the evident unfairness in all this defeats me.

Oh dear are the women being vulgar now....

as well as not gladly submitting to and sacrificing themselves for men? And realising that they obviously have no business wanting anything for themselves in life? They're actually being vulgar....

Will horrors never cease!

Bored now, this is just garden variety poking women on a women's rights forum for funsies, no one can be honestly this ridiculous.

You have to be able to engage with people’s arguments without just saying “it’s complicated”. You have to be able to refute their points convincingly or no one is going to take you seriously. This isn’t Reddit, Bluesky or Twitter.

I suppose one reason why not is if you wanted to persuade other people or just get them to listen to your point of view. To me, reading it felt shockingly like reading something from the 90s saying all gay men are peadophiles or something like that, and I wouldn’t align myself with anyone saying it, ever.

Oh well, I’m sure that poster is devastated you don’t approve of their comment.

but it is hard for one person to have a meaningful discussion with about ten of you at once.

That's why it would be better for you to read the links and then you can have a better informed discussion.

Ok!

Indeed.

I don’t particularly feel that you really understand what you’re talking about, so…

The only reason it is in the debate at all is the gloating way it gets thrown at women, I have rather tended to think in the hope of embarrassing them. Suggesting by implication that any woman who wants to keep men out of women's single sex spaces is a pervert who wants genital searches to happen is not exactly neutral, is it.

So women take the piss out of the idea. and why not? It's been put into the arena, and not by women.

Sorry. People keep saying EXPLAIN THAT or ANSWER THIS or WHAT ABOUT THIS SCENARIO to me. I can’t follow all your instructions at once I’m afraid. And please don’t assume what I have or haven’t read - just because someone disagrees with you personally, they aren’t necessarily poorly read or uninformed. People keep calling me arrogant, and others keep telling me I’m just uniformed or a flat earther. I am doing my best because I wanted a discussion, but it is hard for one person to have a meaningful discussion with about ten of you at once.

Obviosuly if a man made anyone uncomfortable during eg a strip search or medical exam or anything, then I would think that was reprehensible. I don’t think that’s specific to any debate around the trans community or intersex athletes.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable for people to ask HOW people would be identified using the right / wrong loos etc (I’ll say right now - I’m not going to be convinced by we can ALWAYS tell arguments! I know I cannot always tell).

thank you!! @Lougle I shall add that to the archive thread!!