Brave reporter undergoes inhumane sex test for sports. Brace yourselves.

It’s an answer that sits with complexity. My whole argument is I can’t clearly say male or female (and nor can you, or the medical and scientific teams who have worked on this). I’m not going to deny the existence of intersex people to prove something to you (because I don’t think you really have the will to understand it, which is your loss, really)

I think we’re not done figuring out what will be the best solution, but we won’t get ever there if we can’t start by acknowledging complexity and that not everyone fits neatly in a biological male / biological female box.

You could believe that it’s the right decision for her not to compete, but still refer to her using she / her pronouns if you genuinely wanted to be compassionate to a person who was told they were a girl from birth, has female genitalia etc. OR you could just cruelly keep typing HES A MAN for no reason. __You’re not showing compassion at all.

You could believe that it’s the right decision for her not to compete, but still refer to her using she / her pronouns if you genuinely wanted to be compassionate to a person who was told they were a girl from birth, has female genitalia etc. OR you could just cruelly keep typing HES A MAN for no reason. __You’re not showing compassion at all.

Strange how it was never "oh so very complicated" and "we must be compassionate" when men wanted in to women's stuff

but the moment we say no it's suddenly not at all complicated and women have no right to compassion

So fairness would be to let males compete in women's sport?

What women are going to find it harder to compete?

You could believe that it’s the right decision for her not to compete, but still refer to her using she / her pronouns if you genuinely wanted to be compassionate to a person who was told they were a girl from birth, has female genitalia etc. OR you could just cruelly keep typing HES A MAN for no reason. __You’re not showing compassion at all.

I think it’s really clear that it’s not that straight forward - CS was assigned female at birth, has female genatalia, and was previously cleared to compete in women’s competitions following testing (so whatever YOU think, pretending it’s always been completely obvious and clear cut to the medical community is just a bit silly).

we can have compassion for him but also for the women who were discriminated against by him competing unfairly against them. He knew for years though he had an unfair advantage and pushed it and pushed it. He can still compete, just with the other males.

And… what would be my motivation for that? I actually compete at international level in a strength sport (and hold a world record, and some national records) so I am interested in fairness in women’s sports. I don’t agree with you that this is the answer that will create fairness for ANYONE, and it will make participating in sport harder for some women.

Your posts feel consistently… sort of wink wink sleazy? I’m not fully sure what you’re trying to insinuate but it’s really weird.

Thank you for being the rare person to agree the tests need refining / can’t answer everything with 100% certainty. We don’t know everything yet.

You'll say anything old thing to get men into women's sports won't you?
We see you.

If you’re not able to have compassion for someone who was told they were a girl from birth (and had female genitalia), and fell in love with a sport before knowing any different, and now they can no longer compete in that sport (whether that’s right or wrong), then I feel sorry for you.

If you’re not able to have compassion for someone who was told they were a girl from birth (and had female genitalia), and fell in love with a sport before knowing any different, and now they can no longer compete in that sport (whether that’s right or wrong), then I feel sorry for you.

If you’re not able to have compassion for someone who was told they were a girl from birth (and had female genitalia), and fell in love with a sport before knowing any different, and now they can no longer compete in that sport (whether that’s right or wrong), then I feel sorry for you.

Assigned female at birth is meaningless in determining eligibility for the female category. Males with 5ARD do NOT have female genitalia unless you are claiming an undescended penis is female genitalia. 5ARD is sometimes referred to as Penis at 12 (when it often descends). Seminya is 100% male. He and his coaches would have known this when puberty hit but chose to brush in under the carpet to cheat. So this simple test fixes cases like this
The more complex issue which i think you ellude are CAIS and PAIS where you could have a male in the female category depending in the level of angrogen insensitivity (supposedly complete androgen insensitivity would mean no advantage from puberty). I think the Taiwanese boxer falls into this category but there is some discussion that he is partially insensitive. Early days, the tests will need refining.

Assigned female at birth is meaningless in determining eligibility for the female category. Males with 5ARD do NOT have female genitalia unless you are claiming an undescended penis is female genitalia. 5ARD is sometimes referred to as Penis at 12 (when it often descends). Seminya is 100% male. He and his coaches would have known this when puberty hit but chose to brush in under the carpet to cheat. So this simple test fixes cases like this
The more complex issue which i think you ellude are CAIS and PAIS where you could have a male in the female category depending in the level of angrogen insensitivity (supposedly complete androgen insensitivity would mean no advantage from puberty). I think the Taiwanese boxer falls into this category but there is some discussion that he is partially insensitive. Early days, the tests will need refining.

Well that not what’s happening here though is it - it’s a false equivalency. We’re talking here about scientists employed by univeristies and medical institutions, whose work is peer reviewed. People who disagree with you aren’t all the equivalent of flat earthers.

Bollocks.

Literally. Proven in court and admitted by himself in interviews. The fact that they're internal bollocks doesn't make him less of a man. The (likely) presence of a bit of a pouch between his legs at birth is not 'a mix of male and.female.features'. It may have been initially misidentified as a vaginaa but it isn't one, any more than a blurry picture of a domestic cat is proof of tigers roaming wild in Britain - even if some people who look at it mistake it for one.

He's been through male puberty. He has male sporting advantage. He's not 'part female', he's a man with an enzyme deficiency that caused some variance in fetal development. He's just as much of a man as one with a genetic disorder that caused the wrong number of fingers to develop.

He was allowed to compete under previous rules not because he was female or part female, but because the rules allowed males to compete in female categories - subject to certain restrictions.

Have you read Semenya's autobiography? If so, did you note the picture of a school trip to the beach? A topless teenager in swimming trunks is unremarkable if that teenager is male and is known by all to be male. Do you think it would have been permitted, or published, if the school had believed him to be a teenage girl?