Brave reporter undergoes inhumane sex test for sports. Brace yourselves.

I hope it’s not a prejudiced view but my experience has been that it’s been me arguing one thing (not even particularly strongly! With admission of plenty of uncertainty!) and everyone else arguing the opposite. You must have noticed that? Sure sometimes people pop their head above the parapet and disagree, but they’re usually alone, right?

She was born with a sex difference / intersex condition and she is recognised as female by the IAAF. That’s why I’m calling her a woman. She’s not competing so I do think continuing to call her a man is just bullying, really.

She was born with a sex difference / intersex condition and she is recognised as female by the IAAF. That’s why I’m calling her a woman. She’s not competing so I do think continuing to call her a man is just bullying, really.

Perry much every sporting body in the UK has been stone walled to the eyeballs

nearly all of them put on policies that says TWAW and that male DSD athletes are women with high testosterone

theyve been forced back (some very reluctantly) into making sport single sec but bluntly up tikl about 18 months ago anyone not going along with "TWAW and can compete in women's sports" would have been told they were a bigot and that if they don't like it they can leave

how do I know this? Because DH is heavily involved in a highly stonewalled sport and women that complained about men on women's teams were told they could forfeit matches if they didn't like it

She was born with a sex difference / intersex condition and she is recognised as female by the IAAF. That’s why I’m calling her a woman. She’s not competing so I do think continuing to call her a man is just bullying, really.

She was born with a sex difference / intersex condition and she is recognised as female by the IAAF. That’s why I’m calling her a woman. She’s not competing so I do think continuing to call her a man is just bullying, really.

I have said very clearly that I think the people calling Castor Semenya a man for no reason than the fun of it are cruel - I haven’t wavered on that.

It's neither cruel nor "fun" to recognize and call out the truth when it needs to be recognized and called out. If you don't want other people to point out that CS is a man, stop calling him a woman, first.

I dont think so. As I said upthread when someone asked my thoughts on worlds strongest women, my experience was that the strength sports community was fairly split on it. There was quite a bit of falling out and upset and people on both sides of the debate feeling hurt / shocked their coach or athlete felt differently etc. I think some of my insistence on recognising complexity comes from closeness rather than distance if that makes sense.

It's not a cruel test. The original article explained it. If you've ever done a Covid test, you've done worse than one of these sex tests.

All athletes have to do drugs tests because of cheats.

I hope it’s not a prejudiced view but my experience has been that it’s been me arguing one thing (not even particularly strongly! With admission of plenty of uncertainty!) and everyone else arguing the opposite. You must have noticed that? Sure sometimes people pop their head above the parapet and disagree, but they’re usually alone, right?

I think human brains really like certainty, actually! Staying open to being wrong and holding complexity can often be harder.

There are plenty of times I am sure whats right and i’m happy to stand up strongly for what I believe in those times!

I don’t think I’m trying to take the easy middle ground here - i’m just being honest that I don’t know the best way to make sport fair for everyone.

I have said very clearly that I think the people calling Castor Semenya a man for no reason than the fun of it are cruel - I haven’t wavered on that.

this was a response to a question asking if I was in a bubble or if I’ve been challenged before and the answer is YES - of course I’ve been challenged before. And gently, mumsnet is quite famously a bubble on gender issues! Like, you must all know that… it’s an INFAMOUS bubble!

Actually you know, I say that but thinking about it - it also makes me sad when people (and especially women) who aren’t comfortable being weighed in public are also excluded from getting into competing in my sport. We do need the weight categories, and I don’t have the answer to that either 😭 it’s a very different issue of course but it also ends up being an inclusivity vs fairness thing, when I think about it!

I think human brains really like certainty, actually! Staying open to being wrong and holding complexity can often be harder.

There are plenty of times I am sure whats right and i’m happy to stand up strongly for what I believe in those times!

I don’t think I’m trying to take the easy middle ground here - i’m just being honest that I don’t know the best way to make sport fair for everyone.

I have said very clearly that I think the people calling Castor Semenya a man for no reason than the fun of it are cruel - I haven’t wavered on that.

this was a response to a question asking if I was in a bubble or if I’ve been challenged before and the answer is YES - of course I’ve been challenged before. And gently, mumsnet is quite famously a bubble on gender issues! Like, you must all know that… it’s an INFAMOUS bubble!

And yet, we constantly have people challenging us and providing other information … I would think that is the opposite to a bubble.

And I would also think that you have just shown you have a prejudiced view of this board.

I compete in a weight category sport. But weight is EXTREMELY easy to measure compared to sex!

I compete in a weight category sport. But weight is EXTREMELY easy to measure compared to sex!

I think human brains really like certainty, actually! Staying open to being wrong and holding complexity can often be harder.

There are plenty of times I am sure whats right and i’m happy to stand up strongly for what I believe in those times!

I don’t think I’m trying to take the easy middle ground here - i’m just being honest that I don’t know the best way to make sport fair for everyone.

I have said very clearly that I think the people calling Castor Semenya a man for no reason than the fun of it are cruel - I haven’t wavered on that.

this was a response to a question asking if I was in a bubble or if I’ve been challenged before and the answer is YES - of course I’ve been challenged before. And gently, mumsnet is quite famously a bubble on gender issues! Like, you must all know that… it’s an INFAMOUS bubble!

The infuriating thing is the posts about how ridiculous it is that 200,000 girls have to undergo this cruel and unnecessary tests when there's only 200 transgirls in schools in (insert state name).

Yeah and if they hadn't spent 2 decades pretending that it's perfectly ok for those 200 trans-identified males to "run stealth" and tell no-one that they are actually male, then none of this would be necessary because it would already be normalised that schools know exactly who the trans-identifying pupils are, no documentation would have been reissued with false information on it, and the issue of working out how to ensure that trans-identifying pupils have good opportunities for sports and fitness that doesn't disrupt the rights and safety of girls would have had 2 decades worth of time and investment by now.

The expense of these tests is the expense of clearing up the mess that Stonewall Law liars have made, it is not our mess.

Some boxers are heavier than others, why should they have weight divisions? I just want to see the best people compete.

All sports have age categories, but I just want to see the best people compete.

It's difficult in real life to be torn between two very polarised sides.

On the bright side it's a wonderful bellweather for those who do and do not have that elusive combination of critical thinking and integrity.

Results can be surprising and depressing but are extremely informative.

The truth does not always fall halfway between whatever two opposing possibilities are presented at any given time. Behaving as though it does is generally because it's easier to try to keep the peace and paint yourself as the reasonable middle ground at the expense of fairness, logic and reason than to do the proper thinking work and then stand firmly behind what's right.

Humans as pack animals are very susceptible to that easy path.

I just don’t think there actually are that many examples. A handful, sure - I can think of four or five people that others might bring up - but I don’t think it’s actually affecting a great deal of competitors in reality.

I know you’ll all say this argument is tired, but elite athletes DO have physical advantages over other people - that’s why they’re elite. Some of them have incredibly long arms or are good at basketball because they’re seven foot tall… some women might have more testosterone than others (even within the ‘normal’ range. I just want to see the best people compete.

When you have a female race at an international competition and positions 1,2 and 3 go to genetic males, you can't say that it doesn't affecting a great deal of competitors, it literally affected every female in that race!