Brave reporter undergoes inhumane sex test for sports. Brace yourselves.

I rarely post on these boards mainly because I am in so much awe of the knowledge, research and scientific evidence demonstrated by the women who do post here, and who dedicate significant amounts of time to following threads, challenging criticism and always grounding arguments in fact.

I’ve come across scientists, published authors, anthropologists, health care professionals, writers, academics, trans men, women with DSD’s, politicians and many more serious, considered thinkers in this forum.

Keeptoiletssafe deserves a special mention. I’ve learnt so much from her, a true national expert in her field. If this is a bubble, I’m glad to be in it. I’ve learnt so much from these remarkable, educated, wise and often funny women. Thank you.

Maybe instead of jumping to defend it, you could answer thw question?

what hope do you think you have given that poster?

Yep.

Or if women have succeeded in protecting female sports, that they have to stop using accurate language and again revert to complying with the demands of male people to be referred to as female.

Even when they make absurd statement such as ‘Being born without a uterus or with internal testicles. Those don't make me less of a woman,"

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/67336536
.

Women are still being shamed into using in accurate language when it was that same language being used to convince policy makers to create harmful policies to female athletes.

Once you see the assymetry, how can you ever unsee the damage to female people.

Oh. Hang on .. it is only a few so no harm done …

Why are some of you so relentlessly creepy please?

Together with your user name we pretty much have a Victoria Sponge.

Perhaps we should be calling him Caster Eggya, to be properly kind.

I believe this phenomenon may colloquially be known as a "circle jerk"...

What does ‘kind’ and ‘accepting’ mean to you?

what do YOU think you said that gives them hope? And hope for what exactly?

or is it enough that someone just accepted your posts without challenge and that makes you feel you achieved something? If so, what?

I noticed again the purely emotional reasoning that supported claims of kindness and acceptance and not one shred of evidence.

I would hope that gives anyone reading this thread pause.

If these pleas for kindness and acceptance were fair and equitable for female people, where is the countering evidence based on science and not on fallacious and false arguments?

and if the majority of the population of male people competing in female single sex sport, this thread has been in trending all afternoon hasn’t it? So where are the posters with evidence that supports male people’s inclusion ?

All I see is sexism.

That all women should expect is the crumbs after all men have been served in the ways that they wish, and they had better be respectful about it.

Just stuff that, we fought this battle a century ago. Make new categories. Stop mugging women. And when you read sexist post after sexist post, it gets hard to deny that its the getting to oppress and take stuff away from women that is the main excitement behind it.

You can read their post.

”One person said my posts have given them a bit of hope, and that’s enough for me.”

What hope do you think you have given that poster though?

This is the crux of the issue.

Have you given hope that someway, somehow a group of male people should get to compete in female sports when they have male pubertal advantages?

When I doubt that science will ever show that to be a fair decision, and you admit you cannot provide evidence to support that decision.

Has it been hope that some people, such as yourself, will continue to use inaccurate language demanded by some people as being kind and respectful, when it is based on that very language that the first campaigns argued that a group of male people should have their human rights prioritised over female people’s human rights?

genuinely, what is this ‘hope’ that you think you have delivered to a poster and why is that hope more important than science based and evidence based discussion about the harms that female people have experienced since the late 90s by allowing a group of male people with male pubertal advantage to compete in female sports and take opportunities and recognition of exceptionality away from women and girls?

What is the ‘kind’ and ‘accepting’ position that you wish to see on MN?
That when men say 'jump', women say 'how high?' And they damned well better use a submissive and respectful tone too.

Maybe you can explain exactly how a ‘kind’ and ‘accepting’ discussion will flow please?

Is it using inaccurate but kind language that confuses some people or that give a false sense of hope that sports federations will allow male people to compete in female sports categories for whatever reason?

Is it support that male people should be treated as female in special circumstances even though all the evidence shows this is not fair for female athletes even from the age of 6-7 yrs old?

What is the ‘kind’ and ‘accepting’ position that you wish to see on MN?

This is the way I read the post. I would love to be shown that I supposed wrong. But the reality is that too often women and girls have to allow some male people. who some people think should be treated especially different, access to harm those women and girls.

Or if the people says that they support female single sex sports, women have to discuss the issues in a way that suits the person judging, even if the point is accurate.

this is the status still.

yeah, I’ve had some failures of politeness - easy to get defensive when you’re one person arguing against lots and lots of people I think, but you’re right - I’m sorry!

As a whole, I think I’ve tried to provide my views, tried to provide basis for my thinking like the above when asked, admitted when I don’t know or I’m uncertain…. and I think I’ve been on average more respectful than people have been to me in return.

I do think some of the ways people have talked about an individual on this thread (CS) is cruel, and that bit I won’t apologise for.

One person said my posts have given them a bit of hope, and that’s enough for me.

So to show compassion to the trans community you have to let biological males into women's sport?

Bit of a late response (sorry - been busy) but just to remind you that one of your first posts was an attempt to "educate" when you said:

"There are a lot of different types of DSD of course, but broadly it means they have a mix of male and female biological traits, meaning their chromosomes, hormones, or sex organs do not all match up as purely male or purely female…. it just isn’t as straightforward as someone is either male or female. I know you’d like to believe it’s super straightforward, but (sorry if this sounds rude) that’s your failure of understanding / curiosity / openness."

Hopefully your discussions with all the knowledgable, informed posters who focus on returning women's sport to women and girls have helped you to clarify some of your numerous misunderstandings (and dare I say it), your stated arrogance about the breadth of knowledge and experience that women have on here.

Please read the thread linked to the save women’s sports thread.

there are links to the papers about why males were considered female for sports. It is a philosophical discussion about human rights.

it is not based on biological material reality. It wasn’t in 1999 and it isn’t now.

I particularly had in mind the fact that Semenya is male.

I disagree that multiple people acknowledging that and informing you that that it is objectively the case that he is not female counts as either a bubble or a pile-on.

If you feel it is unfair that you are the only one making the case against, we perhaps we could assign someone to play on your team next time - I think many people on this board are well-versed enough in the counter arguments to be able to make them!

Enjoy your evening.

No. I think it points to a captured governance board and general idiocy.

But you are the only one here posing points of view that is challenging the exclusion of male people from female sports events.

Why do you blame women for you being the only one who is here challenging? We usually have numerous posters challenging but it is school holidays.

You have doubled down that it is a bubble.

Let’s not forget that the majority of the UK population do not support male people being in female sports.

I have a badge....

https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/934874628/nasa-pin-not-flat-we-checked-enamel-pin