Lambeth Council to challenge new “discriminatory” guidelines on single-sex spaces

Personally think it is more about an intense emotional identification with a set of causes - which act as articles of faith which cannot be questioned. You'll find these same people also adhere to a whole set of other predictable beliefs and political positions. Group/tribal identity and a feeling of belonging is a strong motivating factor. When you centre your sense of yourself around a particular and 'righteous' set of beliefs and positions there will be fierce resistance to question or to change them.

I know it's been said many times on FWR that this is a men's wants movement, but ever since the SC ruling last year, I've been waiting for things to change. I thought that surely there couldn't be THAT many stupid people in charge of public services, the police, the NHS, schools, etc.

Then I waited for the guidance to be published, then for it to be laid before Parliament. Now, I'm waiting for the guidance enforcement date, 5 August. Soon, we'll be waiting for September when the updated KCSIE guidance comes into force. And waiting for someone in Government to finally say "Enough already. Women have rights, too. Get your act together, quit your whining, and sort it out."

And very little has changed.

Now having read the NHS Scotland thread

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5558835-nhs-scotland-defied-supreme-court-ruling-to-uphold-trans-policies

I have come to the conclusion that, no, there aren't that many stupid people in charge. But there ARE that many people in charge who hate women, and they have been gleefully using this 10-15 year period to screw over as many women as possible. They might all be activists, but I don't think so. It's opportunistic women- bashing, and how horrifying to realize that they've just been waiting in the wings all this time for exactly this opportunity.

I also believe that most of them don't give a monkeys about trans-identified people. All they care about is ruining every possible experience women have in public life, as often as they can.

And THOSE are the people in charge. And they're allowed to get away with it because there are people (mainly men) everywhere who enable them.

THIS is what we are fighting against. I don't even think it's about "trans" anymore. That movement is on its way out. Non-binary is the next big thing. But it will be the same people using the next big thing, to take away women's rights. They're not going anywhere.

I recommend you read The Sunday Times article linked on the thread. It's a real eye-opener. (sorry, Mash is on that thread, as well, not answering questions, of course)

Please explain why it is “transphobic” for women to want privacy, dignity and safety in their sports, when receiving intimate personal care and in times of vulnerability?

It actually provides some interesting perspectives. It seems more concerned with general services like public transport and doesn't seem to consider single sex services (if it did I missed it). The people interviewed have a range of perspectives and for a variety of reasons don't all describe themselves as trans:

Our intention was to be as inclusive as possible in this study, as it was felt that exclusion or marginalisation was neither necessary nor useful in terms of gathering insight and understanding. Our respondents, though, did not all agree with these definitions of transgender. For Charlize/Paul, transgender
didn’t mean anything. “I’m not trans-ing from anything to anything else”, he remarked. Indeed, when the research was introduced as being about transgender community, Charlize/Paul initially said that it did not apply to her. When we first met Charlize/Paul, she was presenting as female. During our ethnography, he4 was presenting as male. Assigned male at birth, Charlize/Paul sees his job as to “bring he boy and the girl together”. In practice, his female
wardrobe is as extensive as his male wardrobe, as are his behaviours and habits. “I am a girly girl, a showgirl, and a mummy’s boy”, he said, nail-varnish on his hands, wearing a low-cut men’s vest and drinking a pint of lager in a local Irish pub.

Gabi, too, took issue with the term ‘transgender’ as it did not mean anything to her. For her, it failed to describe her identity: she is a ‘transwoman’– “always have been and always will be” Transgender didn’t capture this for her.

Moreover, the study included individuals who do not identify as transgender because this implies a relationship with the gender they were assigned at birth, with which they no longer associate at all. For example, a man who was
assigned female at birth, but who now sees himself as a man – not trans, transsexual, ‘transman’, or anything ‘transgender’.

The shorter term ‘trans’ is used in this report for ease of communication and understanding, with apologies to those respondents who do not regularly use the term ‘transgender’ to articulate their identities. This is not an attempt by the authors to eclipse their self-identificationmerely an attempt to ensure accessibility for the lay reader."

My overwhelming impression is that the people included have a very personal understanding of their own identity, and it's never going to be possible to map that onto rights that people need for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with their identity.

Here is Lambeth’s 41pg “A Trans Agenda” document.

https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/default/files/lambeth-transgender-report.pdf

Don't feed the squirrel

Yes the men did say they made a mistake. I believed them the first few times and an older male member of staff told me they all said that and not to engage with them. He was awesome at dealing with the perverts he used to openly mock them in a sort of cool knowing way!
Working for Lambeth taught me more about people and the real world in three weeks than I learnt at University in four years.

https://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/register/organisation/?sraNumber=64688

And they'll have some. 24 of them.

Still waiting for my payouts from the right wing Christians or Moscow…

I expect the response when challenged then was to claim it was accidental, perhaps oh I haven’t got my glasses on.

That would not be the case now.

I used to use Brixton Rec all the time in the 90s. Once there was pandemonium as a man fell through the ceiling into the women's changing room.

It transpired that he had been locking himself into the Family Changing cubicles that were accessible to all, climbing up on the baby change table, removing ceiling panels and crawling through the roof space where the ducting goes to spy on women. He did break a bone, and was arrested.

It is so hard for women to safeguard themselves against determined sexually exploitative men - lets not make it easy for them.

To not implement the ruling is to discriminate against the established protections of female people for whom these facilities were designed.

We really do have some intellectually challenged people in positions of influence - who are incapable of critical thought and of holding several ideas in their head at the same time, don't we?

Name changed for this. Cllr Charlotte Caden is my local councillor and I’ve emailed her to say thanks for representing women and girls in her motion and being sensible re following the law.

Had a lovely reply to say she feels like she’s ‘made it’ being mentioned on MN 😂

I worked in a Lambeth council run sports centre way back in the mid 90s. We had men trying to get into the women's changing room often. I was surprised at first, I had just left university and didn't know much about the world.
The older lifeguards told me to be very careful as there had been a serious sexual assault on a woman in the showers just before I joined. We all checked the women's side often. About twice a week we had men clearly attempting to get into the women's changing room.
So my question is always the same to people who want to allow men into women's changing rooms, what's changed since I was paid to prevent sexual assaults? Even if some men truly belive they are women and dont intend harm what about all the others? The ones me and my colleagues stopped on the way in? How do we know which is which? Because clearly men still sexually assault women and girls all the time.
I think the people who wrote the law in this matter knew the risks clearly.

Are you ok dear?

Goodness Masha

it appears we need to break down the facts for you to understand.

people are born either male or female depending on their chromosomes, no variations permitted.

people can’t claim with any degree of credibility that they were born in the wrong body and feel to be the opposite sex because they have no experience of it, that would be akin to me claiming to be a neurologist because I have always wanted a medical career and it has made me profoundly unhappy or suicidal because people don’t refer to me as Ms Wowthatwasabigstep, and think me competent to perform surgery.

the Trans movement is a cult although it appears to lack a mystical figurehead to syphon money off and drive around in a Rolls Royce instead focused on unhappy and angry people and makes them into even more unhappy and angry people and throws blue hair and shockingly bad dress sense into the mix.

many vulnerable children have been allowed to socially transition and some have even had their bodies mutilated and irrevocably damaged and still found themselves to be unhappy. Society needed to tell them no and encourage them to step outside of their bedrooms, engage in actual conversations with people and get some fresh air rather than going down insane rabbit holes

Proud TERFS like myself challenge the handmaidens and the deluded to protect single sex spaces, call out the misogynistic practices in sport and campaign against men claiming lesbians who won’t sleep with them despite them calling themselves by a female name and throwing on an ill fitting mini skirt are transphobic.

Time for you to gracefully accept defeat, common sense prevailed and maybe with all your spare time you could work on addressing the issues which caused the dangerous delusion in the first place.

these guidelines present the danger of discrimination and prejudice in the spaces where we should be prioritising care, support and service provision.
When residents access our public services, they should not be concerned about how their gender is perceived, but how we provide the very best service for them, every step of the way.

My gym and pool has just been taken into council management by Lambeth.

The showers in the pool are communal and in a small room.

I will absolutely not shower in that space if a penis-bodied person is in the same space. Toilets have locks, changing can be done under a towel, but if Lambeth impose this I will feel very discriminated against, as if my dignity and safety is worth nothing. I would not be able to use the pool before work etc.

Clearly ‘equality’ has a hierarchy and ‘inclusion’ is selective.

I am not a transphobe or under the influence of Dark Forces FFS, I am a female citizen of lefty liberal values.

Fine, Lambeth Council, re model the entire site to provide individual shower and changing cubicles for all, but you will need to double the size of the building, and given that they can barely provide a working hand drier I am dubious about the management ability for such a project…

You forgot to say “ner ner ner”

TRAs do have an obsession with genital inspections. They're the only people I see mentioning them. It's creepy.

This. The utter sexism of these morons that they don't think women have the agency and means to defend our rights without some nefarious "shadowy forces" pulling our strings.

Feminist identifying transphobes are the minority in the UK

I think you're right. I'm not sure I even know any transpobes, either IRL or (anonymously) online, because the criteria for being one are very unclear. Most people know that biology is real, so acknowledging that there are two sexes and that nobody can change sex can't be transphobic. Most people on this board support transmen because this is a board about feminism and transmen are female. So that can't be transphobic either. Whoever these feminist identifying transphobes are, there really can't be many of them.

I'm also unaware of anyone getting daily money or wanting genital inspections.

This is an hilarious pisstake of the TRA mantra, surely.

He’s trying to convince himself, if it’s not a pisstake. FYI @MashaPavwomen earn quite enough themselves to fund all sorts of court cases, as we have done, and will continue to do so. We have the law, rationality, science and the vast majority of the country behind us, in knowing that you can’t change sex. ‘Transwomen’ stay men no matter how many times you say they are women. It’s not 2020 any more.

*interesting choice of Russian sounding name given your comments about Moscow, Masha.

Also: "a banana court" 😂

Please, no one ask for Mash's posts to be deleted. They are gold. They illustrate exactly the kind of mindset women are dealing with.

No real argument, no facts, just tired mantras and pathetic insults .

Let them speak.