Most 'trans' people are non binary - EU survey

Nb people are different but share two important characteristics: we know we're not a binary gender, and people attack us for it.

Can you explain what it means to be or not to be a 'binary gender'? Many of us don't think we 'are' or 'have' a gender, because gender is something which is externally imposed on us by society. I really don't understand what people mean when they say they 'are' or 'have' a gender.

What does other people's reaction (who attack you for it) have to do with anything? How can other people attacking you be an important characteristic of yours? Other people's reaction to you can't be an important characteristic which you have because it's something which is done to you, not part of your identity. If everyone was very accepting of NB identities, so that nobody ever attacked you, would your NB identity cease to exist?

TransParentlyAnnoyed

You have a belief in nb, not all of us do.

It is nothing like what gays and lesbians went through please stop trying to compare the two.

Well, pretty much all the feminists I know don’t identify as a gender either because we’re generally agreed that it’s all misogynist bollocks. We’re simply women because that’s the word for adult human females.

no one is a binary gender.....

I already replied to you, but fine.

I learned about being nb from someone else who was nb (but in a different way) as I said. Nb people are different but share two important characteristics: we know we're not a binary gender, and people attack us for it.

Nb people don't have a hive mind. They are individuals who all describe themselves as nb. Not sure how that's difficult.

It fits me in ways I cannot explain. The only feeling that's come close was getting to know some close, long-lost family. When you know, you know.

In the same way that I knew my sister was my relative, without being told, I know who I am.

Helps that I have gay relatives who were told it was a phase, wrong, misguided or a choice. I've watched them have their 'motivations' and 'selfishness' - and their bodies - discussed by others. (I stood up for them, yes.) I saw how they were vilified. How they were dismissed as less than human, mentally ill and predatory.

I know that today's hostility to trans and nb people is a repeat of the homophobic panic of decades ago.

I know to accept and celebrate who I am. Once I've fully come to terms with it. And on this journey I have been endlessly supported by LGBTQIA+ people. It's been humbling. But also, completely nondescript and ordinary. Because it's a really small part of who I am.

I'm not accusing any particular poster of anything, but having been on FWR for many years, there is a type of poster that claims to be trans and then acts very nastily or pretends they're answering questions by just insulting people.
It's a type of trolling - someone could do this as 'I'm in the XYZ political party and it's well known we don't tolerate XYZ groups' or similar.

I did write more but really don't want to derail the whole thread, so just saying bear in mind that not everyone who claims to speak for a 'community' is doing so in good faith!

I can't explain it because it's intrinsic to me. If you don't feel it, you don't know how it feels.

We've been hearing this for years. The old "we can't explain what trans is to people who aren't trans because it's not possible to understand unless you actually are trans". And then go on to say that children can understand that they 'are trans' almost from birth.

So it's simultaneously so complex that most adults (who are not trans/NB) can't possibly understand what it is, and so simple that even babies can understand it if it applies to them.

And even though it's such an individual experience (which is why it can't be explained or described), we're supposed to believe that all these different people who are saying they have this inner feeling are all feeling the same thing.

None of it makes sense.

As far as I can work out, this doesn't involve anything more than asking them to use different third person pronouns.

They might think you are a little self absorbed, but it's not clear why it would cause more upheaval than e.g. telling them you have joined the Conservative Party or no longer eat bread.

I can't explain it because it's intrinsic to me. If you don't feel it, you don't know how it feels. Accepting that other people are different really is a thing.

Completely agree, but you are rather confirming that if NB is 'trans', 'trans' no longer has any objective meaning.

Right. So you can't explain it, won't even attempt to explain it, but are happy to label others "bigots" for not understanding.

Happy to tell people to educate themselves, although not prepared to even try to put into words what NB means. But content to make assumptions about everybody else.

That's really weak.

Accepting you may be wrong about other people is also a thing.

Your "non-binary" relies on your assumption everyone else feels a binary.

Most people just understand they have a physical sex, and that their personality forms in part through their experiences of being that sex. It is you that imposes the binary label and the belief you know what others feel.

Because I am me.and you are you.

It would suit me not to be nb if I'm honest. The upheaval it's going to cause when I come out to my wider family (immediate family could not give a damn, which was comfortingly hilarious) is something I already watched my son go through.

Non-binary people like me get all kinds of shit, which can't possibly be excused as 'reasonable concerns'. It's just bigotry. Still, I'm used to that as a disabled person, everyone's got a theory about you and unwanted 'advice'.

But I just can't deny it's who I am.

It's not you, and that's fine.

I can't explain it because it's intrinsic to me. If you don't feel it, you don't know how it feels. Accepting that other people are different really is a thing.

I think there has also been a lot of borrowing from the Gay rights movement so if sexual attraction is not just innate, but valid because it is innate, then the same must be true of gender identity.

Ironically, this seems to have been accompanied by a campaign to insist that sexuality is not innate.

It’s curious how even actors who identity as non binary, eg Bella Ramsey, Emma Darcy, are always cast as characters of their actual sex . Even casting directors know…

I guess because gender non-conforming sounds like a thing you choose to do, while non-binary sounds like a thing you are and have no choice about.

For some strands of activist, identity trumps choice. People who cause harm because their stars force them to are really the victims, and people who object are in the wrong because they are lucky enough not to feel the pain that drives their tormentors to hurt them.