STOP MIS GENDERING ME JUST SAY SHE

What is obvious to me is that a pretty sizable proportion of people who identify as trans are just vulnerable and potentially unstable as this young man clearly is. Not all of them, but a sizable proportion. It's clear that for many people, identifying as trans or non-binary is nothing more than a facet or a symptom of their delicate mental state and/or their autism.

It's also a relatively new thing for such huge numbers of young people on the spectrum to do this. While most people with gender dysphoria throughout history may well have been found to be on the autism spectrum had that been a consideration at the time, there simply wasn't this highly visible and easily accessible identity bandwagon for them to jump on. Not until social media created one. It's nothing more than a form of social contagion for many; a new 'tribal' identity most often adopted by that quirky sub-section of society that struggles to fit in with their wider peer group. They aren't not fitting in because they are trans. They are becoming trans as a reaction to not fitting in. And therefore finding kindred spirits in one another, at least.

We are constantly told it's the apparent lack of acceptance and willingness to respect a person's trans identity that is the cause of their mental distress when it seems plain to me that in many cases it's actually the other way around. Their autism and/or their behavioural and emotional issues are leading them to adopt a trans identity. Whether that's a genuine trans identity due to gender dysphoria or just something they've latched onto because it seems to be what all the other kids like them just do these days.

We are expected to focus on their right to identify as a woman or a man or someone of no sex or gender at all, or someone with six genders, or a cat, and to move mountains to accommodate this. The raison d'etre would appear to be that if we collectively agree to affirm and indulge this on a wider societal level, then these people will all magically stop being mentally unwell and 'vulnerable' because the source of all their problems will be solved. But they won't be, because it's not the trans identity in itself that was ever the root of the problem.

We must all pretend our hardest to take these identities seriously when a great deal of the time we are all secretly thinking 'Bless. I'm going to have to patronise this one so I don't seem unkind. They are 'delicate' and not robust enough to deal with what I really think.' We are on eggshells around so many of these people because they are so emotionally volatile. And the more we accept it the more we create.

We have a girl of about 16 in our town who identifies as a boy and she has had a number of incidences involving this sort of behaviour. The have police are called because she's had an epic meltdown and caused criminal damage etc. The defence from her 'allies' is always that she's not really violent or out of control in spite of her antics, she's just vulnerable and misunderstood by a society that won't allow her to be her authentic self. Although what part of this authentic self involves smashing up shopping centres and fighting with security guards I am not quite sure.

Clearly what we should be doing is focusing our efforts and our resources on giving these people support with their autism or their mental health, not collectively agreeing to affirm their delusions simply as a way of managing their behaviour and their complex emotional state.

Hilariously it was my contemplation of the fact I'm "non-binary" that peaked me. My thought train went:

"Well I've always been masculine, but I'm definitely female so I guess I'm non binary."
"But asking people to use they/them pronouns is really cringe, so I'll have to ask for she/her".
"Well what's the fucking point then?"
Lightbulb moment
"OMG none of this makes sense!"

(I keep telling them I'm nonbinary and they don't believe me. 😭)

I once had a couple of TRAs on here speculate that I was probably a detransitioner 😂

Anyway: I believe you! In fact, it would seem logical to me that a lot of GC women would be non-binary. But the fact that someone might be some kind of trans and GC at the same time seems impossible to consider for some people 😝

It's worth watching the second video, where the police are being interviewed. They know, I would say, that they have to be extra careful about this scenario in a way that they wouldn't be for any other unstable male kicking off and aggressively challenging them as they do their job. Because he used the magic words.

('The magic words' can include presenting in a certain way - so the wig, and the weird clothing here are also part of the declaration and visual identification with the sacred caste. )

It is always worth seeing what happens when you ask 'at what point a man becomes a woman' as it is often 'well they havent actually changed sex' or 'they've always been a woman' or it gets just completely ignored.

Yo.

'Forcing others to use wrong sex pronouns isn't about politeness - it's about control.
The original video in this thread shows this dynamic up for what it is. Pronouns are not just a courtesy. They are not just polite. It's about dominance over others even when you aren't in the room.'

100%.

All about power. It's all a power game.

When people with personality disorders discover this kind of opportunity, they will exploit the fuck out of it, because it's virtually designed for it. Anyone who uses the magic words gains power.

I don’t always engage on these threads but when it’s fascinating how many likes etc are from people who are lurking and not posting. It is always worth exposing the weaknesses in TRA arguments.

Thank you for that.

Seems sometimes people need an actual trans person to spell it out for them.

(I keep telling them I'm nonbinary and they don't believe me. 😭)

The dissonance in only being considered ‘female’ for some aspects of life is why the entire concept of treating a male person as if they were female because they demand it just crumbles at first scrutiny.

If a male person cannot compete in the Olympics as a female person, he is not female.

If a male person is convicted of sex crimes and not put into the female prison, he is not female.

If a male person cannot attend a female rape crisis support group because he is not female, he is not female.

It is becoming quite clear that some people who believe they are the kind ones demand others accept the dissonance that they choose to ignore and they do this in their belief that they are kind and respectful. When did it become kind and respectful to expect others to comply with demands to treat someone’s personalised belief in their subjective reality as if it is material reality?

In line with the above by Naomi, at what point in a rape conviction do we respect the complainants trauma and validate her need to recognise her rapist's sex by calling him 'him'?

When the crime first happens on arrest? During the course of the investigation when information comes to light? During the trial, due to relevancy to the case? Or only on conviction because everyone is innocent until proven guilty?

When Nicola Sturgeon was asked what sex Isla Bryson was it mattered.

Sturgeon could not, even after conviction, bring herself to call him a man.

This is causes additional trauma to victims.

Rape isn't just about sex. Indeed it's more often about power and control. Forcing others to use wrong sex pronouns isn't about politeness - it's about control.

The original video in this thread shows this dynamic up for what it is. Pronouns are not just a courtesy. They are not just polite. It's about dominance over others even when you aren't in the room.

When a transwoman or a man who has a case of rapid onset trans-indentifying after arrest, are arrested for offenses of any kind against a woman, this matters. It's not a game. This act in some situations can be worse than the initial incident. In others it's a deliberate ploy to intimidate and make it harder for a victim to pursue.

We can not determine who is 'genuine trans' and who is 'fake trans' in these scenarios. Nor can we go 'well transwomen don't commit these crimes, so they can't be trans' nor can we go 'its really dangerous to innocent trans people to have these cases publicised because it demonises all transpeople'.

Because this ignores the impact on a victim and how the process of failure to acknowledge sex is harming victims.

The reality is that transwomen offend. There isn't a zero offending rate amongst the trans population. Indeed there's everything to suggest a higher rate of offending by transwomen than men. Especially in sexually related cases.

When we have ploppers who go on in denial that they don't recognise that men like the one in the OP are men, they are in a massive cope out because until that man gets put on the internet and everyone sees the demonstration of his behaviour, women have been actively told to accept him and put up with his behaviour.

This arbitrary deciding when someone says they are trans suddenly applies is the ultimate on luxury beliefs by the trans activists. They see themselves as superior to mere ordinary women campaigning so no woman has to put up with this shit at any point, because they earned their vain virtue signalling points. This is gross. This is abuse of women, often by other women not men. It's telling women actively that they are not equals, their experiences are not equal and they are not equal enough to be allowed to say no when it impacts them - which is often from the very first time someone demands wrong sex pronouns.

I've talked about how wrong sex pronouns massively affect family dynamics - partners, parents, children, siblings which declare themselves trans disrupt and harm the identities and power and agency of those closest to them with these type of demands. It's unspoken, but the mental stress on relatives is enormous. Many end up with mental health issues of their own. But it's so taboo no one talks about it. They cease to manner. They are invisible. They are secondary to the demands of the trans family member. All their feelings and internal conflicts are not just irrelevant they are bigoted. They are bad people for even thinking of their relative as they were. Their entire history is damned and prejudiced.

People who just on these threads telling women when and where they are 'allowed' to call a man a man and when they are trans can fuck off to the far side of fuck. They do not have that power and control over other women. They don't know why it is essential to the well being of that woman to say 'no'. They don't get to make that judgement.

The man in the video is representative of this whole problem. The police were demanded to submit by an abusive man. They didn't. Women face abusive men far more often and far earlier in the process. They are still abusive men even if they identify as transwomen. They don't even need to be committing a crime to still be abusive and harmful to women.

And therein lies the biggest point and conflict of all.

Men CAN NEVER be women. No matter how nice they are. Because women need to retain the ability to name their own sense of self and sense of worth and the issues around power and sex. This never ever changes on declaration of trans identity.

You cannot rock up to the office on Tuesday as George and expect your work mates to suddenly treat you as Grace on Wednesday. This is extremely unreasonable and absolutely about power over them. Even twelve months down the line, this is still problematic. Even twenty. Because we know and can't erase that knowledge because it's visual and spoken. It's in every day matterisms due to skeletal differences. It's in everything. It's uncanny valley.

The answer is no.

PS Emphatically not tone-policing, just not wanting to seem naive in my dogged caution! All tones not only welcome to me but positively cathartic - and always, always revealing in what they bring out...

I'll be interested to know who DD responds to, and how, if they return.

My theory in posting more "politely" is...

• if someone's in earnest, it may get them thinking - and maybe also get a lurker thinking, too
• if someone's not in earnest, it may not get them thinking - but it's even more likely to snag a lurker, as it reveals the weaknesses in GI thinking, and the sheer blindness/fear/stupidity/malice that can drive it (delete depending on what the poster in question chooses to respond to, and how) - witnessing this is what got me thinking harder about all this
• you never know who's on the other end, and they could be vulnerable (so many posters like DD are so extraordinarily selective in what they reply to, and resistant to reading what's actually been written, that they come across as either teenagerish or running scared from ideas - either way, someone who's struggling to engage on the same level as most other posters for some reason...)

Let's see how this one pans out...

I had a quick look and couldn’t see this posted in response to the ‘dead pronouns’ post. But I thought this would be useful.

NAOMI CUNNINGHAM ON PRONOUNS AND WHY SHE NO LONGER USES INCORRECT SEX PRONOUNS

This thread, by the way, was in answer to beccajiggens posting:

"Deliberately misgendering trans people in such aggressive ways is conduct unbecoming of a barrister. Again.
@ barstandards"

(my edit to remove auto formatting, but the barstandards was a tag on twitter, intended to bring Naomi's post to the attention of the regulation board)
Naomi's answer:

https://x.com/LoudBonnet/status/2079302831215902930?s=20

" Because I am a dissenter from gender ideology, the pronouns I use are almost invariably determined by the sex, not the gender identity, of the person I am referring to.

I understand that some people think my choice in this is unkind, or rude. I might have thought that myself a few years ago.

I no longer think that, for a number of reasons.

The first is that courtesy is freely given. A "courtesy" demanded with menaces loses its quality as such, and becomes a gesture of submission to bullies.

The second is about truth. If I say "she" of a man, I am implying that he is female. Men aren't female, so I am saying something untrue.

We all tell polite lies sometimes when it doesn't matter much. I think back when I was willing to tell this one, I thought it didn't matter much.

I know better now. What I know now is that many of the men who want to be referred to by feminine pronouns also want everyone to be forced to treat them for all purposes as if they were women, to the detriment of actual women's privacy, dignity and safety.

I think it matters a lot that we should be able to say "no" to those men, and to explain in plain words why we say no (because they are men).
The third is about clarity. Even if everyone knows in theory that the man we're all referring to as "she" is a man really, referring to him as "she" is confusing.

Clarity is fundamental to my job as an advocate: I need to be able to put my arguments as clearly and vividly as possible.

The fourth and perhaps the most important is about what's known to propagandists, advertisers and psychologists as the "repetition effect." People will believe almost any lie, however obviously untrue, if you repeat it often enough.
Lies don't get much more obviously untrue than "trans women are women."

It is repeated like a mantra by trans activists and those who see themselves (or want to be seen) as "allies."

But this lie has a superpower. The superpower is pronouns.

The near-universal compliance with "preferred pronouns," even by many of those who dissent in other ways from gender ideology, means that the lie is repeated with almost every utterance about a man who says he is a woman (or a woman who says she is a man).

And it's repeated not as an assertion, but insidiously, subliminally, by the use of little grammar-words that are normally handled on autopilot and barely registered by either speaker or listener.

It's brilliant propaganda. It's especially brilliant that so many dissenters have been induced to reinforce the lie in this way.
I'm not prepared to.

end/ "

Yes, and I don't even really like football, weirdly.

Good on you (for going to bed at a decent hour) !
But ooof, yeah, watching the World Cup must have been a headache. Can't watch the matches as they happen, and risk knowing the results as soon as you get on the net (I mean, even my phone told me the scores without me having to ask...) That must have sucked. I hope you had fun still!

@Seethlaw
I went to bed!!! I am incapable of staying awake after about 9:30pm. It played havoc with my enjoyment of the World Cup

"a degree in social sciences"

Of course you do, which explains everything, you've been brainwashed by genderwoo.

I do find it fascinating that people get upset about being called something they say they are not, whilst arguing that we all must call someone else something they are not as it is the law.

Anyway.

All men as a class are a threat to women as a class. That's it - that's the point.

Oh dear...

Step 1: Main player in the conversation says they are going to bed. Jump on opportunity to go to bed myself.
Step 2: Sleep.
Step 3: Wake up to 100+ comments on thread.

You ladies didn't go to bed, did you 😂?

So anyway. @DetectiveDouche , here's the basic info about GC women I'd love for you to accept:

GC people have no problem with trans people existing.
GC people do NOT believe that women "feel" like women, or men feel like men.
GC people do NOT believe that women should perform femininity, and men masculinity - it's the opposite in fact: GC people believe that everyone should feel free to perform however they want gender-wise.
GC people are all about sex, not gender.

These are the basics. If you don't accept/understand them, you can't understand where the women around here come from.

PS: I'm the resident transman around here 👋Feel free to ask me any question you might have, in this thread, on any other, or even in PM.

In summary, Douche the problem is MEN in women’s spaces.

This includes the ones who call themselves women and incorporates the forlorn, sad ones, the blue-wigged tantrumy ones, the ones who are made up like actresses and the ones who think they pass as women. All of them.

You seem to differentiate between the performatively “feminine” who are ok, and the presumed mentally unwell ones such as the blue-wigged ones but they are all men. The TiMs you are advocating for would call you transphobic for this.

You want to turn women’s spaces into mixed-sex spaces and you call this being inclusive.

And @Douche, you've been speaking to at least one such women here on this very thread, but you are so sure about your preconceptions about us that you may never have considered this

As was explained to Douche pages ago
I don't think Douche is happy about what the law says so has deflected and now is giving us lots of laughing faces.

Edited to say: Douche now seems to have admitted (possibly) their error

That too hence the 🎻

Because if you weren't new, you'd know that there are a number of women posting on this board who have faced/are facing the scenario you posited.

It's discussed fairly regularly on here both from a personal POV and in the general child safeguarding

Well now. That's a problem right there.
Blair White for example. I know he's open about being trans but some people definitely think he "passes" and if he was stealth no one would guess. I don't agree. Having seen him walking across a room in a video clip it was immediately obvious he wasn't female.

If not everyone agrees that someone trans "passes" then that criteria falls apart.

All this not helped by the fact that many trans identified men believe they pass when, in fact, they don't fool anyone.