STOP MIS GENDERING ME JUST SAY SHE

Sorry.. I kept editing to try to address my typos. I'm not in an ideal situation for posting, but what I was trying to say was has gone on in recent decades, to get us where we are.. we meaning society

lol I didn't flounce. I made myself a list of reading from some helpful suggestions and went to bed. Doesn't sound quite so dramatic I realise. Apologies for that.

I also looked into my apparent misunderstanding of how the law protects people who identifies trans. It wasn't as I thought. I thought I might knew more about protected characteristics and I did. Can I blame my apparently pathetic social sciences degree?

Amongst all the posts and insults I managed to get some insight it might appear at first glance that "Mumsnet is trans intolerant" and also thet what has gone on to get us where we are in this place and time, re gender and trans issues.

I genuinely don't understand what you're trying to say in the bit I've bolded @DetectiveDouche. Who is the "we"? It would be useful if you could clarify what you mean here.

Hi @Catiette
I probably didn't articulate it adequately at 2am but there were indeed many points that got me thinking and have led me to doing some reading and planning to do more.

And I can't trawl through the person to tag, but it wasn't so much being accused of being a man over and over but of being a misogynistic man who was pretending to be female and to come on her specifically to insult people and cause trouble. If anyone has been interested enough to look it would probably have been possible to see that I don't usually post particularly provocatively or go looking for trouble and I am indeed a middle aged mother of several grown kids. And the only reason I post as one is because I am one. I have neither the time nor the patience to be anyone other than myself, (social sciences degree and all) and that's challenging enough at times.

I came on here by accident, in response to viewing the video which was showing on active threads. I had long wondered why it appeared that people posting mumsnet didn't seem to tolerate the concept of being trans. That was how it appeared to me. My "ignorant" posts came from my incomplete knowledge.. I'm seeking to address that. Amongst all the posts and insults I managed to get some insight it might appear at first glance that "Mumsnet is trans intolerant" and also t what has gone on to get us where we are in this place and time, re gender and trans issues.

i haven't read the whole thread (yet) and may not because I have my list of reading. Thank you to those who posted something helpful. We can't all be right all the time and we can only hope to keep learning.

The TR movement has so much to answer for. From feeding vulnerable and ND people the delusion that ones biological sex is a lifestyle choice to demanding that all of society affirm these choices without question.

What could possible go wrong?

I haven't read the full thread. It is clear this man has mental health issues. What is also clear to me is the long term harm and cruelty of affirming these lies. The fact that tra demands became enshrined in laws giving people such as this young man such a warped reality has caused untold harm.

Mis-sexing is petty and sad and cruel and deeply offensive to women and girls.

I’m baffled by this logic. I don’t think anyone on the GC side has ever argued that females feel female and males feel male. I’ve never felt particularly female in my life and I’m too damn old and grumpy to start now.

You say - some females don’t feel female so let’s sterilise them, make them incontinent, cause all sorts of physical harm and chop their tits off. Then let’s make everyone pretend they’re male and punish them if they don’t pretend convincingly enough.

GC people say - fuck gender roles, wear what the hell you like, climb trees, study science, have fun and stay healthy.

And before you go back to your frankly horrendous essay about lying to your children this isn’t hypothetical for many of us. My DD did go through this and it was horrendous. And I told her that testosterone would not magically turn her into a boy (she genuinely thought it would) and what some of the side effects were. Five years on she likes make up and boyfriends. Are you seriously - seriously telling me I should have lied to her and pumped her full of testosterone? Really? I bet you didn’t do that with any of your children.

It appears that she had a misunderstanding of what is covered by the Equality Act.

Several posters then tried to explain in simple language how the Act actually works.

Referenced the EA 2010 finally, but then had to be "walked through" what "gender reassignment " actually means, and that it doesn't mean we can't call a "transwoman" a man. Then started claiming that what they'd meant all along is that transpeople can't be abused or harassed, which no one was disputing because it wasn't the point of the discussion.

So, yeah, as @TheywontletmehavethenameIwant said, swerves and knots, and generally trying to rewrite history. But I think we got there in the end (I gave up around midnight. I'm a fool.)

As I suspected! @TheywontletmehavethenameIwant

No, she swerved, changed tack, zigged zagged, tied herself in knots and then denied it all, before flouncing off.

I know the conversation has probably progressed, but I'm just now catching up to this thread. Did Douche ever come back and point out the law that says one cannot "lawfully and legally" refer to transwomen as men?🤔

Do they do that T shirt in larger sizes for us ladies with traditional figures?

I only popped by for a few laughs at the AIBU threads. A mere decade and a half or so later I’m FWR to the core.

If I was still in the UK I'd open a Woman's Shed.

Necrosis, strictures, fistulas, incontinence... all the good stuff.

Plus, they start with a physically healthy patient. This isn't plastic/reconstructive surgery where someone has been in a terrible accident or born with congenital issues.

Me neither. The sob stories all come under “hard cases make bad law” for me. And they have.

It is so bizarre that someone wanting flesh from their arm rolled up and stitched between their legs isn't considered mentally ill, or that that could possibly be the correct solution to anything.

I never got past the reality that human beings cannot change sex. No one has ever given me a compelling reason as to why this is the one subject where we should definitely lie to people. I researched vaginoplasty and phalloplasty and the horrific side effects (as I often say - incontinence doesn't improve anyone's life), and it shocked me how downplayed the seriousness and also the crapness (pun not intended) of these operations were.

I'd love to hear the 'gender studies' arguments for the above.

And if you are anything like me the WTF? moment when you realised you could be shunned for something so bleedin' obvious, was scary

It was the McKinnon person who shocked me into realising what was happening. Discussing it with a group of relatives and in-laws I realised a few of them were staying silent. Afterwards the relative from one of the couples took me aside and asked me if I could avoid airing my views as her husband was of the view that twaw and these discussions made him uncomfortable. I was utterly shocked. It was the husband of a niece so late 20s. I put it down to his youth and lack of thought or maybe someone he knows personally. It was a proper eye opener for me though. He's an educated intelligent man. If the subject ever arises again, I will air my views clearly. I doubt it will.

On a photography forum, my "Gender Ideology" thread was closed down a month ago, when a new member with half a dozen posts (I currently have 6,500 posts over twelve years) complained and called me the most bigoted person they had ever encountered.

That's what pisses me off the most, the damage these self-righteous shitheads can do, your thread did no harm to the world but they can't leave it be, if it offends their fragile sensibilities they will manufacture resentment for it and get it removed. It's the unfairness of it all that's the biggest crime, shame on the forum for kowtowing to the perpetually aggrieved. 😡

The WTF moment, first happened on a UK cycling forum, which I am still posting on, where a couple of blokes said that TW should be competing in women's cycling if they wanted, because there was no proof that TW were stronger than women, because TW scientist Joanna Harper said they weren't. Thankfully, most of the blokes agreed with me. On a photography forum, my "Gender Ideology" thread was closed down a month ago, when a new member with half a dozen posts (I currently have 6,500 posts over twelve years) complained and called me the most bigoted person they had ever encountered.
The amazing thing is, that I have never spoken to anyone in real life about this, except my wife (she doesn't know why I am fascinated about the subject, when in fact I am actually quite horrified by some of the things which have happened).
I simply could not ignore the fact, that a very loud minority of people, were doing as much as they could to spoil every aspect of women's lives.

Two Woman's Sheds have opened near me recently. Which was a nice development as I agree men also need male only spaces.
I came at all this the opposite way to PPs. 20 years ago a young woman I knew transitioned and I was so puzzled as to why. Then I was annoyed as I saw her opting out of the challenges of being female in our shared nerdy scene. It was clear internalised misogyny, which sadly seems to have grown wildly since then. I have 2 young TiF relatives who all came out recently.

And if you are anything like me the WTF? moment when you realised you could be shunned for something so bleedin' obvious, was scary.
That sinking feeling of almost disbelief when I first realised this was not going to be treated like any other issue - is exactly what I am sure many others who worked in the public sector like me felt. That realisation that people weren't going to listen; were forgetting central tenets of their profession (in my case, child safeguarding, child development) and were essentially cowardly and willing to throw others under a bus who were not so cowardly. It's a very profound and destabilising experience to realise that people you thought of as sensible have lost their minds and/or their principles.
In my case I was forewarned what could happen, having been on Mumsnet and really aware of this issue some 10 years ago now. Still, I was shocked when it did happen where I worked.
I don't understand why other people don't understand how serious this is, but my husband (who is as passionate about it as me) has had the same experience as you. Many people are very lazy thinkers.

It was 2018, when I first became aware of gender ideology. I was on a cycling forum and saw an article about Rachel McKinnon, who had stolen a masters cycling World Championship from women. He was standing on the podium, huge and arrogant, no shame as a man competing against women. I made a few comments about him on the Cycling News forum, saying how wrong it was, for the cycling authorities to allow him and others to do this. This resulted in a permanent ban for me, the same happened on a motoring forum, when I questioned why the Algerian boxer was competing in the women's category. I have been accused of "white knighting", other blokes have asked why it bothers me. I lurked for a long time on MN, because it was one of the very few places, where people could discuss gender ideology.

It's all about correctly identifying a groups core aim and who it should be centred on and crucially why and for what purpose.

I'm still furious at the women's outdoor group who identified the need and purpose for a women's group based on biological related issues, social issues related to biology and why women didn't want to discuss this in front of men and the second two tittering (literally) blokes with beards said 'can we come too' they said yes.

It's so at odds with every word they'd said in the previous half hour.

It's disrespectful to women.