STOP MIS GENDERING ME JUST SAY SHE

Yes, although I also don't know how best to handle a man who appears to be in the grip of a personality disorder and possibly also having a meltdown.

I mean I have no idea. Is it best to 'affirm' to try and soothe? Is it best to 'grey rock'?

Police need to have a handle on how to approach these situations, but in order to handle them well, they must be able to be clear, ask questions, and be honest.

BEFORE the cuffing, this man wasn't sure who was in control. He wanted to be. The Police said they would spray him, then told him to get on the ground. He was still very reactive. Once cuffed he knew he had nowhere to go & no control. At that point it is not uncommon for a person to become totally compliant.
Some do not and need further intervention (a shot of a tranquilliser)

The focus on his “vulnerabilities” is an attempt to handwave away the issue of these men having to interact with people who aren’t going to validate them.

That's the problem though. Clearly no-one has intervened up to now and given this man the mental help he so desperately needs. Instead he's been validated and pandered to - it's not kind, and it's made his delusions worse, and frankly made him dangerous.

What's interesting to me is the debate over his 'vulnerabilities'. Specifically the potential for having autism/mental illness. This was a person completely out of control 'allegedly'. Yet once cuffed had a very different demeanor. He was immediately compliant. He continued to debate with the officers about being misgendered. But was totally in control. That's a quick turned around for someone so emotionally dysregulated.

It's one person. No more representative of trans people than Rose West is of cis women

It enrages me to be called a 'cis' woman. Biological woman is better but unnecessary because it's obvious. Just 'woman' is short and accurate.
However, if someone called me 'cis' out in public I'd ignore it and cease communication. Not have a wobbly.

This is not exactly the point being made.

The point is we've all been told to enable and affirm
people like this, in the interests of 'being kind'. To the extent that this man thinks he has right to be referenced to as a woman, may think he 'passes', probably thinks he has a right to women's spaces.

Enabling men like this is certainly not in women's interests. It seems to not be in his own interests either if this is the behaviour it encourages.

Affirmation of delusion is an awful strategy.

oh natch 😂

It’s not good for him that it’s on the Internet. However, it’s good that it is and that such a wide audience has been reached. It’s good that the “be kind” crew are learning what happens when ideology meets reality. This is a dangerous man and trans is a dangerous reality

Doesn’t surprise me at all.

Don’t be silly Eresh, they only have a passing, very slight interest in this topic. No hidden agenda at all 🙃

Yes, I will, and do. Thanks for your valuable contribution.

As with anything, people don't want to see anything difficult or challenging. Because there is also the fundamental problem that if you see a problem you have to acknowledge it and then take action.

And taking action requires effort.

No one wants to deal with problems in our society at present. There's a base level of laziness and apathy that's driving this all unfortunately. Across all types of politics and policy. It's anything for an easy life and virtue signalling is so much easier than dealing with issues as grass roots level.

By LD I’m assuming you’re meaning what in Aus is an Intellectual disability, ie IQ <70?

these are NOT the children with autism co-opting a trans identity. It’s the children with normal cognition, some very bright, mainly girls presenting as “trans” after puberty.

I'm a TRA, you're a TERF. I'm not debating any further than that. You hold whatever beliefs you want. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

I saw a man who looked very much like this, marching into the Ladies at a museum a couple of weeks ago, as I was walking out. I felt annoyed with myself later that I hadn’t challenged him, I would have told a staff member but the museum was closing and there was nobody nearby. I didn’t challenge him because this is how I imagined the response. There were three loos, Male, Female and mixed with baby changing, so he could have used the mixed.

I think she means that all the people enabling him in identifying as a “woman” have exacerbated his PD.

A man, out of control & therefore a danger to himself and others, can still be vulnerable eg if a person was having a psychotic break.
I think this man's MH is very fragile: his insistence on not being 'misgendered' was more important to him in that moment than being pepper-sprayed.
It's not good that it's on the internet. He is unwell (he cannot be a woman, he cannot / will not cope with that, it becomes a problem to those around him).
It could be that this is a fairly isolated incident (the Police could do with more training in de-escalation). It could be shades of this happen if anyone looks at him the wrong way in the 'Ladies Loo'. He needs MH treatment. He may also be ASD but of course that is not a MH condition and cannot be treated.
I have two ASD young people. One considers themselves 'trans'. Neither would behave in this way (they have had spectacular meltdowns but would become very afraid / 'comatose' rather than being able to insist on pronouns/'fight back')

Yes. I am not saying he doesn't have some vulnerability (ies?) but he knew exactly what he was doing here. Adults throwing tantrums is not something I would want tolerated in society as a given.

Wow I do. My family member, several kids of friends, and several friends of my DC. My teenager even commented that the people in school who have a trans identity are generally the ones who have a ND diagnosis. One girl in particular has a range of diagnoses and has had a lot of problems with bullying, and has ID'd as trans off and on – in my teen's view, as a way to try to fit in or find an accepting crowd.

Having said that there is a lot of overlap between adopting trans as an identity, and adopting/collecting other diagnoses as an identity. So some people are self-diagnosing as autistic/ADHD as well as trans which muddies the situation.

I’m not an expert at all, but I think a lot of the young people who have diagnosed themselves with gender dysphoria have also diagnosed themselves with ASD, they may or may not have it, but they probably aren’t receiving much mainstream support for it, their “identity” is affirmed far more. So the kind of support they get is Reddit and LGBT groups.

“Being kind” is all well and good, but it has everything to do with gender identity when he enters my daughters’ bathroom. In his stupid little girl stripy socked attire, FFS.

100%, and police should be able to handle people with personality disorders. As I said, though, they've been trained to see a 'trans' identifying person as explicitly not having mental health issues/personality disorder.

This is not helping anyone.

Blimey. It’s like watching Kevin the teenager, or a giant blue haired toddler. There is a man who has been pandered to, lied to, and never told ‘no’. It is horrifying to think he probably uses female facilities.

I get it - but this is not about "affirming", this is about diffusing the situation so he can get arrested without hassle and without having to use violence and pepper spray.