STOP MIS GENDERING ME JUST SAY SHE

Blah blah blah.

Ok whatever you say.

Meanwhile the law ...

The general consensus that "being trans" isn't even really a thing. That's prejudicial in an of itself and it jumps off the screen constantly on these threads. It's been that way for years. Even as the world moves on and peoples perceptions broaden, Mumsnet posters continue to struggle to accept that some people are trans. They dress it up in well worded arguments about women's rights (and incidentally, I believe absolutely that female spaces should be protected) ,but the message on here strongly suggests that so many believe that it shouldn't be an issue because people should just accept that they were born with a penis or vagina and live with that associated gender, despite how they may feel inside. It's so close minded. The world just isn't that black-and-white..

Some adult men have taken this as carte blanche permission to do whatever they like. They have become increasingly more unreasonable with their demands and threatening when not obliged. And society has gone along with it.

Now boundaries are being put in and we see the results.

No. These men cannot do whatever they like. It is not discrimination to expect the same standards of behaviour and compliance with the law as everyone else.

Of course

That does not mean, however, that they have any rights to spaces designated for the opposite sex. It also doesn't mean they are immune to the laws that govern society in general

But people here don't have a problem with that. So what are we supposed to be "aeriated" about?

Behaviour similar to my 3 year old. He’s not mentally ill, he just thinks he is more Special than anyone else in the World so he can act any way he wants and is cross when someone tells him otherwise. He hasn’t been taught to regulate his emotions and respect authority. Looks like a simple case of bad parenting to me.

Yeees. But I, and others explained that some discrimination is lawful, under the Equality Act. It's lawful to exclude males (trans-identifying or not) from places set aside for women and girls.

Do you acknowledge that to be the truth?

It's not discrimination to say men cannot be women, and men don't belong in women's spaces or women's sports.

@SodThisHeadache . Protected legal status, in this context, means the right for a person who perceives themselves as trans, to be legally safeguarded against discrimination and harassment under anti-discrimination laws. This isn't what I believe items. It's simply what it means.

To be fair everything you stated in that post, and others, was wrong, so what you 'believe' PROTECTED LEGAL STATUS to mean is likely to be wrong as well.

@RedToothBrush your prolific and lengthy observations (the facts as you see them) are the very definition of "the Aeriated of Mumsnet". 😂

Trans issues aren't going away though regardless. They are an aspect of personal identity that is legally safeguarded from discrimination.. whether the supremely educated of Mumsnet (as well as those who just see themselves this way/sincerely hope they come across this way) like it or not. You folk really can go on ad nauseum, stating your case, picking apart what you perceive as my understanding (or lack theteof) of The Law.. and yet STILL, .. people who see themselves as trans (whatever that means to them) will still see themselves as trans.. and a good many of them will cite the law as they understand it, to defend their right to call themselves trans. And on it shall go. While mumsnet is still chuntering away to itself to the tune of "a girl is a girl and a boy is a boy". <Wonders if chuntering can be perceived as misogynistic> 😂

Thank you @DetectiveDouche for your acknowledgment (by the flowers you gave me) that you now understand

Where did misogyny come into it??

Who won't be helped by people aiding in his delusion. If he isn't capable of functioning on his own then he needs a carer.

I say this as an autistic woman with autistic children.

@DetectiveDouche

So, PROTECTED LEGAL STATUS exists. What then, according to you, does it MEAN? (Please tell us what it MEANS, not what you BELIEVE it means, I know trans activists believe all sorts of things that are not true).

Or are you in a roundabout way saying you didn't understand the law? We have now explained it to you, so that's all good right?

Edited for more detail

Indeed. To quote Hot Fuzz 'What a load of horseshit'.

Hmm but what you actually said was:

"The Mumsnet MAJORITY get very.. aeriated.. at the fact that being trans is a PROTECTED LEGAL STATUS in the UK.. that's a fact.. doesn't matter how much they shriek on about birth gender being set in stone. It's THAT opinion that is not legally recognised anymore.. and yet it takes up so many pages of posts on all threads mentioning trans.. like these opinions are going to reverse the legal status that now exists!"

Which strongly suggests that you think the "PROTECTED LEGAL STATUS" of trans (in fact, legally, gender reassignment, not "being trans") is somehow contradictory to the idea that "birth gender" (presuming you mean sex) is "set in stone".

In fact, it is set in stone (i.e. unchangeable) and the fact that gender reassignment is a protected characteristic is not incompatible with that. Because gender reassignment being a protected characteristic does NOT mean trans people have a right to be seen as the opposite sex, or that they have changed sex. It means they shouldn't be treated differently because they are trans.

That also applies they other way round, so "gender reassignment" shouldn't mean you are granted the rights of a group you don't belong to, when no one else gets that privilege.

Beep beep vehicle reversing.

@SodThisHeadache but I did not state what I believed PROTECTED LEGAL STATUS to mean.. I just stated that it existed.

@BarefootNosepicker

Exactly! And if a man (let's say a lovely man like my husband) wants to enter a woman's changing room, he's not allowed. Because he's male.
And because he's not allowed, nor is a man who says he's transgender (even if he's lovely like my husband, even if he's got a Gender Recognition Certificate and even if he's had his penis inverted and his testicles removed*).

All of this is Legal Discrimination.

*as you say, very few do...

Edited for clarity

I have bookmarked this. Because I think it is a very clear 'Lehman's' terms' way to explain it to people who know nothing about it. It's something I try to explain to people often and quite as often get stuck with!

So many don’t seem to get this.

Let’s say a man with a gender identity has changed his name to Annie, gone as far as have full surgery etc which most don’t.

Annie being told by the manager of a coffee shop he can’t enter because he’s trans is discrimination.

Annie however cannot use the women’s toilets because he is not a woman(& never will be), that is not discrimination.

Annie being denied access to the library because he’s trans is discrimination.
Annie being unable to attend a women’s book club there is not discrimination.

Hope this helps the poster that’s confused to understand.

It's really encouraging that younger students didn't feel pressured to pretend that this 27 year old man is a little girl, despite his stripy stockings and his Mary Jane shoes.

Students shouldn't feel they have to pretend to believe in sexist, regressive, homophobic gender ideology. I'm happy that studies show that most students today are more confident to admit that they believe sex matters.

I think it was quite instructive in the newer video, one short little phrase from the first witness at about 15:50.

He says "So these were more juvenile kids, so they don't really have a filter."

Saying exactly what you said; everybody else there is expected to 'filter' what they say. But these younger people, without a 'filter', clearly weren't bothered about walking on eggshells in the same way that students at the university were.

It's also worth recognising that this is Florida, USA. Part of the walking on eggshells will be fear of being shot dead by an aggressive man for refusing to affirm him.

I assume its some kind of anti psychiatry/prison abolition thing.

That nobody should ever be deprived of their freedom, no matter the risk of harm to themselves or otheres.