"Anti-trans views classed as misinformation in government report"

1984 Orwell like

@MrsOvertonsWindow absolutely right. The media are key to all of this. Too much happens in the dark when the public do not have access to information. We should be keeping an eye out for organizations infiltrating/targeting the media from without. Again. Is there a body like Sex Matters that deals strictly with the media?

(Not sure what's being done to deal with the activists already within. Perhaps SEEN in Journalism?)

Just picking up on the point about how to "be in the room". One factor that hasn't been mentioned is the media who are now fully aware of the assault on women's rights and child safeguarding. They widely reported the Amnesty travesty, the grim Herbert and his actions have been widely showcased. The Telegraph exposed the Cabinet Office's "really secret guidelines about single sex spaces that mustn't be mentioned" All in the last week.

That gives me a bit of hope that with a media who join up the dots, the powerful trans lobbyists wedged at the heart of government will not have it all their own way. Hopefully.

Oh fantastic, that's a brilliant reason to leave them out 🙄

I despair, I really do

the idea of adding sex in as an extra category to the Hate crime legislation was mooted. But somehow that wasn’t acceptable. I forget why

At one point (I think related to English non-crime hate incidents rather than the Scottish bill) it was explicitly said that women were being left out of the protections because if they recorded the ones aimed at women there would be too many to handle.

Surely the medical/ vet person knows what sex is? Bulls? Sheep?

Jfc

You did, @Ereshkigalangcleg , I should have quoted you as well.

As I said, they don’t mention women’s rights at all in the categories of disinformation.

Yes I know all this rubbish needs undermining but pointing out that if you believed in it it should definitely include women’s rights too seems important.

Without disagreeing that this is another BeKind and worthy of a thread, I am remembering how the Scottish government deprived women of the right to assert that they were being subjected to discrimination and harassment.

First, they separated women off from all the other categories that were to be protected from Hate. They assured us that we would get our own special provision. They said that was what Women’s groups wanted. Tame handmaidens like Engender, presumably. Helena Kennedy’s group worked on that for years, presumably trying to shoehorn trans identifying men in.

Then ScotGov decided to abandon the separate provision, leaving women with nothing while all the other groups had legal protection.

In order to do something, the idea of adding sex in as an extra category to the Hate crime legislation was mooted. But somehow that wasn’t acceptable. I forget why, probably because pesky women might point out some truths or it would be deemed unacceptable to Scottish Trans, Engender or any of the other paid yes-people.

So what I’m wondering is whether we need a frontal attack where we demand that sex realist positions be treated with respect and protected too? Why aren’t our governments making sure disinformation isn’t being used against sex realism? Ask for what we want.

White feminist guilt, perhaps?
If so, the fact that they're also bringing down women like Allison Bailey and Jennifer Melle seems to have escaped them.

Wow that is the most deliberately misleading take on the Khelif debacle I have ever read. Talk about disinformation... I doubt the authors of the report would see the irony though.

Apart from that now we know that the seven academics are not only happy with a man getting a gold medal for punching women... they also want to silence those of us who point it out.

It never ceases to baffle me how some educated women are enthusiastically trying to dismantle women's rights.

It is true that a lot of misinformation was spread about Khelif. So many people were claiming, and continue to claim, that Khelif is trans-identifying, which is false.

In fact Khelif explicitly denied this and said (in Arabic): "They don't have the right to say that I am transgender. This is a big insult to my family, to the honour of my family, to the honour of Algeria, to the women of Algeria and especially for the Arab world."

This misinformation gets in the way of explaining the actual problem, which is that Khelif is male, with the testosterone-driven advantage this confers in sports.

Same as the whole "trans athletes in women's sports" framing. It's incredibly misleading. Hergie Bacyadan, a woman who identifies as a man, was competing in women's boxing at the Paris Olympics at the same time as Khelif. No-one had a problem with this, because Bacyadan is female.

Anyway sorry I know everyone in this thread knows this, just wanted to have a little rant.

Doesn't it just show what works though? What is most feared, what does the most damage to evil agendas?

Sunlight. Truth. People speaking it. Making other people hear it. Pointing it out. They're desperate to find a way to make it stop.

They only tackle the one with the ball. So we know what we need to do a whole lot more of.

And everyone else is made terrified to speak.

Oh look its a totalitarian dictatorship.

I thought the lib left were all passionate about colonialism/slavery etc and being so very virtuous?

'Intent to cause harm' is merely 'it inconvenienced my agenda to have that truth drawn to people's attention'.

Decided on by the powerful to suppress and control others to achieve their aims.

This is yet another way of forcing women to be unable to even mention or speak out to protect themselves when men use and abuse them. It is the abuser's hand over the victim's mouth. There is something seriously wrong with people who think like this. They would be a whole lot happier living in North Korea for a start.

That really is chilling Eresh.

It's The Emperor's New Clothes but with a new ending, where the child who shouted out, and the child's parents, are arrested and never seen again. And over the next few days, people who were standing near to them in the crowd also start to disappear...

Ok, if you don't mind, I'm stealing all of this for the Be Kind 2.0 thread. It is, after all, a tactic (or two). If a new No Debate 2.0 thread starts, I can easily move stuff across if necessy.

What I do not know is how to be in the room to make that defense.

Agree. One of my biggest frustrations is how many of our politicians just won't listen and won't act. They don't want to make the tough decisions. Goodness knows, they could definitely be making more money doing almost anything else, so why are they in politics in the first place?

I've come to the conclusion that politics actually only attracts either idealists who don't last long, or narcissists who want to be in politics just for the power. There are very few ordinary people in politics. Those with a conscience don't stick around, on the whole.

If government won't act, who is left? The lobbyists. I shall be watching what Andy Burham does very closely.

Which is exactly how the case which led to the Supreme Court judgment was framed in 2018, it was something like “like a thief in the night, the Scottish government stole the word “woman”. The first attempt to sneak a genderist definition of woman into a new law, I think.

I’m fully supportive of a #NoDebate 2.0 thread - I think it’s a great idea, and those who don’t want to post on it can just scroll on by, can’t they?

Yes I 100% agree. This is a concerted attempt to reframe Genderist demands in a way that allows them to sidestep FWS and Forstater.

I think the defense is what it has always been - don't play their game by trying to refute the arguments as they are framing them because they rigged the game when they stole the word "woman"

Keep the focus on the undeniable reality of female bodies and female people, the historic fact of our disempowerment and exploitation, and the injustice being reclassified against our will as people with a certain type of mind, and of preventing us from talking about our lived experiences.

What I do not know is how to be in the room to make that defense.

It's definitely herding cats at the moment, and some days I just don't have time to catch up!

I'll keep going with the Be Kind 2.0 thread for now. It may be that we'll have occasion to need a new No Debate 2.0 thread at some point. No doubt someone on here will know when the time is right.

Sometimes I feel like I'm following something that is moving through molasses, breaking up as it goes, then something like this pops up.