Vulva Only Spaces

lurking are you outside the UK? Because under uk law, women can have single sex spaces that are only for women.

if you live elsewhere, your suggestion might be a step on the road to more sensible laws.

You started this thread with an opening post that wanted to include cockless men in with women.

How did you think this was going to go?

This week must be end of an academic year.

Lurking but not remotely interested in learning.

Lurking but not learning. 🙄

I am genuinely confused OP

Do you or don’t you think the defining element for female people is that male people have a penis? And if removed and a surgeon creates something that resembles a vulva, are these male peiople acceptable as female people in your view or not?

@Lurkingandlearning

Robin White has used the same suggestion as you, he believes he is a “somatic” woman.

He sounds like a man, and looks like a very large intimidating man. He dresses himself in a strange Mrs Doubtfire type garb, which he thinks is womanly.

He believes he has a vulva.

India Willoughby thinks he is a woman, he believes he has grown a cervix. He stalks and abuses real women on line calling them vile names.

so no surprise your suggestion is derided.

Frankly its insulting.

OP, do you mean that transwomen who have had the surgery wouldn’t be as threatening because they’re not able to rape women in these spaces? Is that what you mean, like a compromise of sorts?
I’m pretty sure most transwomen wouldn’t want to cause any harm but it’s not the point really, the point is if women aren’t comfortable sharing their space, then that’s the end of it. We can alleviate risks as much as we can by saying no to anyone with a penis, but it doesn’t change that lots of women don’t want a biological man in their space. Penis or no penis, they’re just unwelcome.
I’m of the opinion that a 3rd space is needed now and that’s all there is to it. Some women like myself will be ok using unisex bathrooms if it’s necessary but some women would rather not and they’re the ones who we should be catering for.
There are so many arguments and rebuttals for this issue from either side about rights vs safety and the point I always find myself coming back to is, do women deserve to be uncomfortable in their spaces? No.
Im pretty sure most transwomen wouldn’t harm anyone and if a man was determined to get into a bathroom to rape a woman they’d just do it so I get why people think that’s a decent argument for TW in women’s spaces but ultimately for me it’s simply, women have fought for the space and we need to respect that they want to keep it. We should work together to keep these spaces separate and find a solution for trans people. I know I’ll be told that they don’t want a third space and that transwomen want to be indulged into having access to our spaces. And I say, tough. If a fair option is available and you refuse it and choose to make women uncomfortable then you’re a selfish arsehole.

I suppose if a poster didn't realise that you could view the original pre edited post they might think they could imply something about the pre edited post

@Lurkingandlearning castrated men are not women.

women are adult human females

My edit, for those wondering, was correcting 'you' to 'your'.

This is, apparently, 'indicative of my frame of mind'. 🤔🤨

Oh. Snap. I am confused as well!

I’m confused. All Betty did was fix a typo and add an ‘r’.

How is that indicative of a change of mind?

So you mean they don’t feel the same as women until they’ve had full genital surgery?

You do know that would exclude about 90% of transwomen?

ETA: also, do you think that anyone with a penis doesn’t know they shouldn’t be in a women’s changing room? I mean, they’re there because they want to be. Putting a different sign up isn’t going to make them suddenly think they shouldn’t be there?

What does correcting a typo indicate?

That is a goady, inflammatory suggestion.

I don't like the title of your post and I don't believe you are a genuine poster. I think you are here to annoy women and point out how stupid we all are.

There's nothing wrong with the word Woman.

MN is not your actual mum. Good grief.

You used your Very Own Words and people disagreed with you.

Grow up.

I'd rather not normalise such horrific mutilation. How could any medical professional bring himself to do such a thing to a human being, it doesn't bear thinking about, let alone casually referred to as op has done.

Cutting off a healthy body part and crafting it into a totally different shape - it's completely nightmarish, a horror movie. Like cutting off a nose and trying to make it look like a mouth. I can't understand how it is allowed at all in regulated hospitals.

Exactly. We do not want to examine anyone else's crotch to check they are allowed in so therefore the configuration of the crotch is irrelevant.

How about "if you have XY chromosomes or if you might alarm women by looking convincingly as if you have XY chromosomes then please do not use this space. Gender neutral facilities are available (give directions) if you prefer not to use the men's.

The other day I was at a zoo and the person doing a feeding talk came out with a bucket of fish and the male friend with me said "oh the chap's arrived it must be about to start" - they had short hair alright and any boobs were undifferentiated from belly due to being somewhat overweight but it was obvious from gait and bone structure that they were a woman, and I was feeling it was rather sexist of my friend to call them a chap as women don't have to follow feminine stereotypes to be a woman. Then the microphone went on and they introduced themself (in a clealy female voice) as "Mark". And Mark has every right to use that name and present that way but would frankly be quite welcome in an XX only space as far as I am concerned as there's a lot more to being convincingly male than a short haircut and trousers, and Mark was entirely unalarming and visibly and audibly female. However I am suspecting that being able to clock at a glance whether someone is male or female is a survival trait that women have developed but is simply not there, or not developed, in men which might be a contributory factor to transwomen thinking that they "pass"?

No, women only spaces is just fine. No rewording necessary. Men just need to stay out. Very simple and easy. I'm sure you'd agree?👍

Btw - Your change of wording from 'they' to 'we' is noted and (sorry!) too little too late... 😬

Why is the word woman an insufficient descriptor of an adult human female?

why should we resort to body parts to define ourselves?

I can tell you why, because trans identifying men tried to nick more than one of our female exclusive words. Trans women. And we want it back

HTH

I see what you're saying, but I'd rather no men at all, and given some men will claim they have a vulva, it's the same issue as using the word women.

Much easier if people just accept that they can only use the single sex designed for what they are not what they want to be. And sex, not gender.