Pakistan’s deep denial about grooming gangs

Pakistan is a seriously inept corrupt abusive to women country. We need to stop giving foreign aid to countries because half the time they are richer than us these days. We are absolute mugs and the situation is only going to get worse with Burnham who is going to absolutely screw the fuck out of everyone unless they are on benefits. I don’t have any issues with people on benefits if they are truly disabled but most are piss takers who just taking the Mickey on the day by day basis .

There is also the issue that migrants who live in very insular communities still live in a world they left ( although Pakistan still has areas that are the same, and they have betrayed Jinnahs dream of secular democracy to become an Islamic dictatorship). That doesn't mean all Pakistanis want to live in that world but there is a significant minority that do, and force their wives and daughters to do the same through refusal of education and insularity, aided and abetted by politicians too scared that the men who control the vote will turn against them.

I read PP’s post differently. Aren’t they saying that Pakistanis in the UK are heavily from a particular region/culture (Mirpuri) that is [the things PP claims]?

Then whether that’s true depends on whether that’s a fair characterisation. There’s a lot of data that’s pretty uncomfortable to make the case with though.

(Like saying “Indians that came to the US are highly educated” isn’t a racial claim about all Indians).

I think the issue here is the prison sentence. He should not have been released after doing half his sentence.

All Pakistanis that migrated here? Bit of a racist generalisation. My husband's family are perfectly normal non-mysoginistic people thank you.

This is why I think Pakistan is correct in what they say. These people were ' spoilt' here. In the same way children are spoilt. Let to do what they liked because ' that's just how their culture is'. The authorities allowed, and in some cases, encouraged this. If they had been arrested and publicly prosecuted- them and the entire clan network who protected them- right from the start they wouldn't have continued behaving as if they still lived in some Pakistani backwater for decades. He lived in Britain from the age of 14 but in a closed community that brought him up to believe non Muslim girls were trash and that they could do what they liked. Then, mostly White British social workers, police etc agreed with them!

Until recently women and girls who were raped were automatically guilty of illicit sex unless they could provide 4 male witnesses of good character so obviously they had a very low level of reported rape.
i don’t expect societal attitudes have changed all that much even if the worst of those laws has been reformed in the last decade.

Castration or Rwanda

@FinchiePink

Smart, then they'll stop all the economic relations we have with them - you'd be amazed how many factories in Pakistan produce goods for UK companies.

Why would they shoot themselves in the foot and stop making/selling stuff for the UK? Surely that would harm their economy. Makes no sense. It's not as if they're selling stuff to us for our benefit!

Yes it’s pretty awful.

Yes, it has the air of 'dancing slags' and 'uncovered meat'. Telling on themselves.

Pakistan has no responsibility for his crimes.
Unfortunately the Pakistani's that migrated here came from a very insular community and continued to live in that village, racist and misogynistic mindset with a religious undertone.
Due to the UKs reluctance to promote social cohesion in the name of anti-racism allowed this to fester.

He would be admired by enough men that he would have a very easy life over there.
I read many years ago a Radfem imagining of a world where men lived completely separately to women on some sort of island where they were occasionally thrown food and largely left to only harm each other. I disagree with it in general but think there’s merit in that idea for some men.

I would have been quite content for him to stay in jail here, despite public expense. He should have had several life sentences strung together consecutively, and therefore would never come out. But he served only two thirds of the inadequate sentence he was given and is now out and about. Our justice system does not like women and girls. 😱

I've come across a couple of things about this in the last few years that have stuck in my mind but I cannot provide links I'm afraid. One was a podcast in which an ex Muslim woman was saying that the reason the Pakistan men are so organised about this is because they also do it in Pakistan, essentially they are well practiced at it and just do what they do there. It might have been Jasmine Mohammed but I am not sure.

The other one was an article in a publication, maybe Unherd or The Critic, written by a young Pakistani man detailing the sexual abuse he was subjected to by his uncle when he was a child, in Pakistan. There was nowhere for him to turn, the women in the family would turn a blind eye but they have no power or influence anyway, and would probably get beaten if they tried. He thought if he took it he would be protecting his sister, but it turned out she was also sexually abused by the same uncle.

All in the context of a very clannish social system which seems to have more to do with Pakistan than Islam, and Islam tends to hoover up an incorporate a lot of what's already there. Behind closed doors, say nothing, boys are abused as well and the women and children have nowhere to go.

I guess, much like other countries, Pakistan wants to pretend it couldn't possibly happen there, but the whole point of the young man writing the article was to say yes it does, to boys as well, it's just hidden by a closed social structure where the abusers have the power. Class doesn't seem to make much difference either, he was well educated and no longer in Pakistan iirc. It's depressingly universal, and sanctimony is cheap.

Edited to add, just to be clear, I am not letting Islam off the hook for its attitudes to women, this is in relation to this particular country.

should be treated in the same way as white British rapist, and we can't outsource all problems to other countries.

I be happy to pay Pakistan to take the white rapists too. We might as well get some value for the £133 million we give them in aid.

why should they accept a criminal who has lived in the UK for almost his entire life and has no Pakistani citizenship or passport? would they take a random criminal from China or Brazil or Scotland just because the UK government wanted to get rid of the criminal?

the guy is a horrible person who should be spending the rest of his life in jail. but he should be treated in the same way as white British rapist, and we can't outsource all problems to other countries

I know a taxi driver from Pakistan who sent all 3 of his boys back to Pakistan at 15 to be educated in a Madrasa, so being in the UK since he was 14 doesn't mean as much as some people think it does.

Smart, then they'll stop all the economic relations we have with them - you'd be amazed how many factories in Pakistan produce goods for UK companies.

I don't doubt China can make up any short fall in double quick time, the incentive is with Pakistan to keep us sweet not the UK bending the knee to them.

And now isn't really the time to be alienating close allies on the world stage, especially since Pakistan is such a key mediator between the US and Iran.

Yeah bang up job they did on that one.

Even worse in some cases.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-40731035

As he was only 14 when he came to the UK I dont want to send him back, sorry but

What I do advocate however is going for the Dutch approach and detaining offenders in secure hospitals with detention reviewed every two years. Basically he would never be let out and that I suggest would send a message to others like him.