'Heather' Herbert Charged Over Ann Widdecombe Comments

Good. I think the police give out far too much information, by and large. Unless its necessary for the public to know, they should just wait til the trial to satisfy their curiosity.

Personally I don't feel that anyone was misled. I think the the police have (and rightly should have) a lot of discretion about how and when information about the nature of a death is released to the public. Saying too much too early can prejudice enquiries.

Ok, that's fair.

But there was certainly no initial impression given that anything untoward had happened. The impression given was that she had been found dead and then further information had come to light to suggest foul play.. The immense violence of the attack does not align with this.

There's a helpful form on the page where you can
'Email the Charity Commission and the culture minister now, and make sure they stop charities spreading hate.'
Just saying....😏

Lol good luck jols

He’s making a complaint against Sex Matters apparently

https://action.goodlawproject.org/sex-matters-complaint

So why was it initially reported as natural causes and then the police changed this saying new evidence has come to light?

My recollection is that initial reports were only that AW had died. Nothing about natural causes.

Not unusual to be heard in Crown same day. But to put in a date for trial? That is unusual. Did he put in a plea? Or are the trial dates just being pencilled in because of the very high profile nature of the case?

Given the awful new details that have been released, it must have been immediately obvious to police that this was not death by natural causes, surely. So why was it initially reported as natural causes and then the police changed this saying new evidence has come to light?

All very odd.

By the way has Jolyon resurfaced anywhere after deleting his Bluesky account

I still use the methodology of 'sandwich spread' with the finely chopped gherkins to make all sorts of mayo based salad sides. From potato salads to just a cheese, tomato and mayo mix.

https://nitter.net/hellothisisivan/status/2079918645354873309#m

I’m happy to say, as a homosexual, that ‘homosexuality is wrong’ is a less objectionable opinion by several orders of magnitude than ‘people who think homosexuality is wrong should be bludgeoned to death with hammers’

I googled the photo a couple of weeks ago, when someone else on a thread had drawn attention to it. He was lying down in a disabled loo, where there's more floor space. His head was quite near to an errant piece of loo paper. I think he felt he needed to exhibit to the world.

Sorry slightly to butt into the Sandwich Spread pages. My Dad liked it and I don't mind it. I've never tried it with fish finger sarnies but it isn't unlike tartare sauce when I think about it.

The other oddity is that immediately after the magistrates' hearing there was another hearing in the Old Bailey to determine the date of the trial. This doesn't normally happen - in fact, I've never come across it before.

They said on PM that that was to give the police enough time to gather all the evidence that will be needed. Whether that was factual or the opinion of whoever said it I don't know.

Be interesting to see at what point (if ever) the BBC decides to use accurate pronouns to describe him.

No actual woman would read about the awful way Ann died and rejoice and hope it was worse. We read fearfully, as with all the thousands of similar attacks on women and girls reported each year, because we can well imagine something similar happening to ourselves or a female relative or friend.

The fact the BBC is in denial about male violence against women – and, in fact, is even bowing to these men’s demands to erase it, by describing offenders as ‘she’ is utterly disgusting.

Regular Police. If you're thinking Bash Back, will be interesting to see if that changes....

Just to add about the court drawings - court artists aren't allowed to draw in court, they have to watch the trial and then draw the defendant afterwards from memory.

Nice article here for anyone who's interested:
https://www.itsnicethat.com/features/courtroom-illustration-060420

It'll be because it's CT linked. I did a double take at the Old Bailey as well, but they have the CT courts and CT judges I believe - I think I expected him to pop up at Exeter Crown but it makes sense.

Also the initial Mags hearing and Crown CAN be on the same day, I have definitely seen it myself, it's just that court time often doesn't allow for it. Especially if being produced from prison.

I'm willing to bet the CT aspect means the court not only made time, but the risk assessment for moving him between courts would have meant a request to minimise movements and making them less predictable in case of opportunity for a premeditated attack on the van / convoy.

ETA - for those unfamiliar, Crown Court has to order the remand in custody - it cannot be done by the Magistrates.

www.cps.gov.uk/prosecution-guidance/bail#c9

What's particularly odd is that they're revealing so many details from an initial hearing in a magistrates' court. Normally that level of detail would only come out when the case came to trial in crown court.

The other oddity is that immediately after the magistrates' hearing there was another hearing in the Old Bailey to determine the date of the trial. This doesn't normally happen - in fact, I've never come across it before.

The whole case is deeply unusual, quite aside from the horrific nature of the crime itself.

I can't even stand sultanas in cake or scones.

21 blows makes it clear it was premeditated, deliberate, targeted - no accident, no misunderstanding.

My mum used to put sultanas in curry which I loathed and like @IcakethereforeIam now can't abide savoury food with fruit in it.

I guess knowing the extent of the battery does counter those who will come along and say ‘but he had MH issues, was isolated after his father’s death’ etc. It may even turn out that he is ND and that will be trotted out as a factor too.

Am rather fed up with the people not understanding that that sort of info may ‘explain’ but can never ‘excuse’ a persons actions and that it is the complex interaction of all those variables that produce the individual, not their MH alone. True crime and docudramas for decades have tried to explain these people [though I am glad to see more recent series are victim and investigator focused, rather than fetishising psychopathy like the Jeffrey Dahmer bios] but I am not sure it is a healthy preoccupation.

We do need to understand what role society and parents have in the making of these killers, but we also need to focus more on how to protect vulnerable people. My PiL are 6-7 years older than Ann W was, so I just cannot read the details of the reports as I would keep seeing my wonderful MiL. I worry about them enough, as it is. What I’d like to come out of this is more protection and security training for those in the public eye and families of elderly and/or single people stepping up to check in on them more and communities caring more, stepping up more.

I imagine they've shared it to stop speculation. Otherwise people would be coming up with all sorts of theories and arguing on social media which is potentially worse.

I think they gave details when sir David Amess was murdered. Stabbed multiple times

ETA

https://news.sky.com/story/conservative-mp-david-amess-stabbed-multiple-times-in-incident-at-constituency-surgery-12434498

What an absolute bastard, I feel sick thinking about that poor woman's last moments. Please God it was quick.

Isn’t it also that very unusually they have footage of the actual attack this time as it was captured by a camera in her hallway so they are free to release quite detailed information because it won’t be challenged in court?