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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Right-wing press perpetuating hate over Widdecombe

481 replies

YourHateIsShowing · 16/07/2026 08:41

The Daily Express and others claiming the reaction to Ann Widdecombe’s death has somehow “exposed the left” as hateful, is nonsense as usual.

There is hate on the left. Without question. There’s also hate on the right. There are totally extreme nut jobs on both sides, too. Neither side has a total monopoly on either. But I think it’s pretty lazy to not see past the noise and understand the origin of hatred on any side of conflict. Context is everything. And most can agree with that when it comes to certain situations. As a mother, I understand the hatred a mother would feel towards a drunk driver who ended their child’s life through one careless selfish decision to drive home from the pub intoxicated. Or for worse crimes we know exist. I’m using these examples simply to make the case that our value systems should be consistent. Not to imply the level of harm is the same in all cases. That would be an overreach.

Ann Widdecombe was a deeply controversial politician. She was unapologetic about her views on immigration, LGBTQ+ rights, welfare and poverty. I remember her response when challenged about people who couldn’t afford a cheese sandwich: her answer amounted to, “Don’t have a cheese sandwich then.” I’ve watched her for years as a speaker on right wing conservative talking points; she dedicated her life to politics, but very often in ways that supported the structural degradation of groups of already marginalised people in society. So I loathed what she stood for and I make no secret of that.
And why should others who were actually targeted or harmed by the spread of her views suddenly be expected to pretend she was a saint because of what happened to her? Or be quiet? Widdecombe was anything a saint and anything but quiet throughout her political career. Death doesn’t erase public record.

What I will say though, is this: what happened to her was awful. Abhorrent. What happened was utterly disgusting, AND so were her views on a lot of things. Views that had influence. That doesn’t mean she deserved what happened to her. I feel for her, and her family. She would have been scared. She has my empathy for that. In spades. But I certainly don’t think others who were the focus of her intolerance should be expected to rewrite history or suppress honest criticism of the suffering she supported within society, out of respect for some weird convention that says we should only speak well of the dead. I don’t buy into that.

I’m sure Ann loved her family, had close friends, and watered all her house plants. I don’t see the world in terms of heroes and villains. We can be either at any time under different circumstances. But for those who’ve maybe read 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, you may also find truth in the words of Covey who said “we are what we repeatedly do”. If you repeatedly lie, guess what? You’re a liar.

There’s truth in that, even though I mostly see people on a spectrum and not in the binary. I still see the small compounding decisions they repeatedly make, and more importantly how those decisions impact others. We can also accept conflicting ideas, where good people commit a bad act, for good reason. It’s complicated.
But overall, some people leave the world a tiny bit kinder, fairer and more compassionate as a result of those compounding decisions met with their sphere of influence. Others leave it more divided, more fearful or less equal. Most of us fall somewhere in between. And most have little influence outside our immediate circle.
Ann had more than the average bod, so I hold her and other public figures to a higher standard. She didn’t stack up, for me.

Ann Widdecombe accepted and even defended policy that saw totally unnecessary poverty and hunger (children included), in the 6th richest country in the world. She stood against abortion in cases of rape. And she consistently fought against gay rights. She repeatedly contributed to this. This is who she was. What she stood for. And what those who support her stand for.

So what the right read as hatred among the left today, in the wake of this awful event that brought her world views into sharp focus, I read as an intolerance not of her skin colour, or her sexual orientation, or her nationality, but of all she stood for and against; all she was intolerant of in people without choices.

Karl Popper’s paradox of tolerance explains this best, I think. If you’ve not come across it, it’s essentially characterised by an intolerance of intolerance itself. The difference is this: to be intolerant of someone’s skin colour, ethnicity, or other things they cannot change, such as their sexual orientation, or even level of poverty, certainly if you’re still a child born into it, is not the same as having an intolerance of those who punch down at them from a place of privilege.

Ann Widdecombe was openly homophobic and believed science should one day cure it, as if being gay were a disease to be eradicated. That’s a profound intolerance of something people cannot change. The same cannot be said of a worldview built on prejudice, bigotry or theocratic ideology. Those are beliefs. They’re decisions. They can be questioned, challenged and changed. Even after death. And if she and others like her directed more of their intolerance towards harmful ideas, rather than towards people for who they are, and for that which they cannot change, we’d have less hatred on both sides. But the root of that hatred, is glaringly obvious when you actually take the time to analyse it. Spoiler alert: it’s not coming from the left.

So this headline can get in the bin.
Where it belongs.

Right-wing press perpetuating hate over Widdecombe
OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Roxela · 17/07/2026 07:45

Whisperingwaters · 17/07/2026 02:02

Oh stop white washing her obvious belief that homosexuality is 'learned' & can be 'cured'. This nutter like many conservatives had a 'groomer' mentality that she attempted to obscure by framing her homophobia as a desire for self determination.

"In her column in the Daily Express, she questions the lack of availability of therapy for “gays who do not want to be gay”.

Widdecombe wrote about the case of Lesley Pilkington, who was found guilty of malpractice by the British Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy last year.
She argues that if a gay person wants to change their sexuality, professional help should be available to them, despite a lack of scientific evidence for it working.

She wrote: “When I was training as a Samaritan in the Eighties the first principle was never to dismiss another’s priorities.

“If a man rang in and said he was gay we should never say, “Oh, that doesn’t matter, it’s OK to be gay,” if he took the opposite view.”

https://www.thepinknews.com/2012/02/02/ann-widdecombe-let-unhappy-gays-try-to-turn-straight/

I am not defending her views or arguing in favour of them. Reading the Express article you linked, she appears to have been making the same point that I said she was making, together with advocating for people being people able to choose to have therapy if they are unhappy with being gay and want to try not to be.

She absolutely did have views about homosexuality, but a personal desire actively to cure homosexuality or believing that it is learned, is not what she is saying here.

EasternStandard · 17/07/2026 07:30

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 23:23

The 'conflict' has become more about the consequences of free speech absolutism. The chickens having come home to roost because the right laid the groundwork for anything goes under the guise of its not hate to speak the truth can't have it both ways when one of their own is at the mercy of it.

I'm not justifying this ugly debasement of public discourse, I'm just explaining how we got here that seems inconsistent with now punishing those for 'wrong speech' whose culture enabled it.

You reap what you sow.

This line of attack is pretty warped wrt a murder of a female ex MP.

Ik you’re angry but getting to this place where you type you reap what you sow over a murder isn’t a good place to be.

MintBird · 17/07/2026 07:24

Have you seen the state of Facebook these days? Literally every single time there's a news article about a brown or LGBT person being attacked there is a long list of laughing emojis and comments celebrating it.

It's all "free speech" of course and "no one should be arrested for a tweet" according to the far right. Unless they are trans of course.

Whisperingwaters · 17/07/2026 06:31

TheKeatingFive · 17/07/2026 06:16

This is all nonsense though.

No one has the right to demand what Doctors prescribe for them. Doctors must work within the parameters of what they know to be safe and cost effective. In the absence of a strong evidence base it is right that they would be cautious.

No one has the right to conceal their sex to access facilities designated for the opposite sex. That has no impact on someone's freedom of movement. They can use the facilities provided for their sex or unisex facilities.

Strawman. No one is suggesting the right to demand what doctors prescribe for them. What they are demanding is doctors be allowed to administer treatment that's medically approved without political interference. You might not care about this because it's a win for your ideology but violating this principle puts all medical treatment at risk the prevailing government deems 'inappropriate'. See reproductive health care in the US.

No one has the right to conceal their sex to access facilities designated for the opposite sex. That has no impact on someone's freedom of movement. They can use the facilities provided for their sex or unisex facilities.

Everyone has the right to privacy under human rights law as they do the right not to be 'othered' into a third space.

In any case, it's not illegal yet for trans people to use their preferred toilet. Its only possibly illegal for service providers to allow them which we won't even know for sure until case law clarifies this. If you have a single-sex space a trans person can still go into that single-sex space, but if someone complains, they can bring out a sex discrimination claim or the organisation can exclude that person, but that doesn’t happen automatically. Even if you do have a single-sex space, the exclusion must be proportionate, which means that the rights of whoever wants to be in a single-sex space, if they’re complaining, have to be counterbalanced against the rights of a trans person. Those rights still exist. The law hasn’t changed on that.

Seethlaw · 17/07/2026 06:25

Whisperingwaters · 17/07/2026 06:08

No one has the right to any healthcare they demand. That is mitigated by what HCPs believe to be safe and appropriate and (if on the NHS) also cost/benefit

Oh please. Everyone knows the Cass report was politically motivated medical interference whose recommendations are now being blocked because the inexpert political ideologues who demanded it don't like the outcome. You people don't give a flying F of what experts believe is safe & appropriate if it doesn't align with your dogmas.

Trans people have exactly the same rights to privacy as anyone else.

Being forcibly 'outed' & 'othered' is anti privacy as per human rights.

They also have the same rights not to be abused as anyone else.

The point you are missing is the unnecessary increase of risk they now face which effectively constrains their freedom of movement.

This is hilarious.

Though I'm sorry you're in such a state of mind as to apparently actually believe all this nonsense.

TheKeatingFive · 17/07/2026 06:16

Whisperingwaters · 17/07/2026 06:08

No one has the right to any healthcare they demand. That is mitigated by what HCPs believe to be safe and appropriate and (if on the NHS) also cost/benefit

Oh please. Everyone knows the Cass report was politically motivated medical interference whose recommendations are now being blocked because the inexpert political ideologues who demanded it don't like the outcome. You people don't give a flying F of what experts believe is safe & appropriate if it doesn't align with your dogmas.

Trans people have exactly the same rights to privacy as anyone else.

Being forcibly 'outed' & 'othered' is anti privacy as per human rights.

They also have the same rights not to be abused as anyone else.

The point you are missing is the unnecessary increase of risk they now face which effectively constrains their freedom of movement.

This is all nonsense though.

No one has the right to demand what Doctors prescribe for them. Doctors must work within the parameters of what they know to be safe and cost effective. In the absence of a strong evidence base it is right that they would be cautious.

No one has the right to conceal their sex to access facilities designated for the opposite sex. That has no impact on someone's freedom of movement. They can use the facilities provided for their sex or unisex facilities.

Whisperingwaters · 17/07/2026 06:08

TheKeatingFive · 17/07/2026 05:58

No one has the right to any healthcare they demand. That is mitigated by what HCPs believe to be safe and appropriate and (if on the NHS) also cost/benefit analysis

Trans people have exactly the same rights to privacy as anyone else. They also have the same rights not to be abused as anyone else.

There are no 'human rights' for men to access spaces designated for women.

No one has the right to any healthcare they demand. That is mitigated by what HCPs believe to be safe and appropriate and (if on the NHS) also cost/benefit

Oh please. Everyone knows the Cass report was politically motivated medical interference whose recommendations are now being blocked because the inexpert political ideologues who demanded it don't like the outcome. You people don't give a flying F of what experts believe is safe & appropriate if it doesn't align with your dogmas.

Trans people have exactly the same rights to privacy as anyone else.

Being forcibly 'outed' & 'othered' is anti privacy as per human rights.

They also have the same rights not to be abused as anyone else.

The point you are missing is the unnecessary increase of risk they now face which effectively constrains their freedom of movement.

TheKeatingFive · 17/07/2026 05:58

Whisperingwaters · 17/07/2026 05:53

Of late?

The right to healthcare, privacy, identity, not to be 'othered' & the right to be in public without the very real risk of being abused for starters.

The campaigning for women's private spaces has gone hand in hand with the routine denigrating & slandering of trans women as just degenerate men who want to be able to use women-only spaces unchecked painting trans them as predators instead of just human beings who want to live their lives.

If you think this has no real social consequences I have news.

Edited

No one has the right to any healthcare they demand. That is mitigated by what HCPs believe to be safe and appropriate and (if on the NHS) also cost/benefit analysis

Trans people have exactly the same rights to privacy as anyone else. They also have the same rights not to be abused as anyone else.

There are no 'human rights' for men to access spaces designated for women.

Whisperingwaters · 17/07/2026 05:53

TheKeatingFive · 17/07/2026 05:32

What rights do you believe were being removed?

Of late?

The right to healthcare, privacy, identity, not to be 'othered' & the right to be in public without the very real risk of being abused for starters.

The campaigning for women's private spaces has gone hand in hand with the routine denigrating & slandering of trans women as just degenerate men who want to be able to use women-only spaces unchecked painting trans them as predators instead of just human beings who want to live their lives.

If you think this has no real social consequences I have news.

TheKeatingFive · 17/07/2026 05:50

Whisperingwaters · 17/07/2026 05:44

Oh say the routine denial of the existence & rights of other humans in the cruelest vicious defamatory manner not to mention smearing them as a danger to society to the extent these individuals rightly fear for their lives & are prisoners in their own homes.

Don't you dare suggest social media blustering is in anywhere in the vicinity of this unconscionable real world harm.

But what rights are you talking about?

Whisperingwaters · 17/07/2026 05:44

Oh say the routine denial of the existence & rights of other humans in the cruelest vicious defamatory manner not to mention smearing them as a danger to society to the extent these individuals rightly fear for their lives & are prisoners in their own homes.

Don't you dare suggest social media blustering is in anywhere in the vicinity of this unconscionable real world harm.

TheKeatingFive · 17/07/2026 05:32

Whisperingwaters · 17/07/2026 05:26

What's dumber than a bag of rocks is assuming its only words that are provocations & not actions that effectively remove the rights & dignity of others.

In any case, the routine dehumanisation & demonisation of trans people is all over social media. Perhaps you don't notice harm if you approve of it.

Edited

What rights do you believe were being removed?

TheKeatingFive · 17/07/2026 05:31

Whisperingwaters · 17/07/2026 02:06

A site that cherry picks ugly rhetoric & conveniently leaves out the full context of the provocation preceding it has no credibility.

Cry bullies like the Israeli government don't get to play innocent.

What 'full context' would mitigate something like 'stab your local terf' I wonder?

Whisperingwaters · 17/07/2026 05:26

Apollo441 · 17/07/2026 04:24

Are you saying those unhinged quotes were responses to provocations? So where is the TRA website cataloguing the hateful Terf rhetoric? There isn't one and if you think it is because the TRAs are too ladylike to stoop to such a thing then you are dumber than a bag of rocks.

What's dumber than a bag of rocks is assuming its only words that are provocations & not actions that effectively remove the rights & dignity of others.

In any case, the routine dehumanisation & demonisation of trans people is all over social media. Perhaps you don't notice harm if you approve of it.

Apollo441 · 17/07/2026 04:24

Whisperingwaters · 17/07/2026 02:06

A site that cherry picks ugly rhetoric & conveniently leaves out the full context of the provocation preceding it has no credibility.

Cry bullies like the Israeli government don't get to play innocent.

Are you saying those unhinged quotes were responses to provocations? So where is the TRA website cataloguing the hateful Terf rhetoric? There isn't one and if you think it is because the TRAs are too ladylike to stoop to such a thing then you are dumber than a bag of rocks.

TempestTost · 17/07/2026 03:10

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 14:18

I may not want to personally, that doesn't mean it's acceptable for someone else to say I'm not entitled to, given there are lesbians who are very religious and do want a religious wedding. I don't buy into the "seperate but equal" argument given by Christian homophobes. She was born in a different era so what? She voted against gay rights her entire political career and didn't support my right to abortion as a woman. I don't have to agree with her views.

Societies always have to discuss what rights people have, under what circumstances.what social institutions like marriage are actually for.

These are not self evident issues.

Heggettypeg · 17/07/2026 03:03

Misogynists don't need a reason for incivility to women. They'll make an excuse of anything.

SionnachRuadh · 17/07/2026 03:03

Whisperingwaters · 17/07/2026 02:06

A site that cherry picks ugly rhetoric & conveniently leaves out the full context of the provocation preceding it has no credibility.

Cry bullies like the Israeli government don't get to play innocent.

Unsolicited opinion on Jews klaxon.

Whisperingwaters · 17/07/2026 02:37

Heggettypeg · 17/07/2026 02:15

The ugly rhetoric exists, is out of all proportion to any so called "provocation" (ie.women daring to stand up for their rights) and has gone unpunished.

Meanwhile women have been hounded out of their jobs for daring to say that there are times when sex matters, and that they would prefer not to have to change their clothes in front of a man.

The transactivists are the crybullies, and they have been indulged for far too long.

"The ugly rhetoric exists, is out of all proportion to any so called "provocation" (ie.women daring to stand up for their rights) and has gone unpunished."

I once told an ex friend to 'fuck off' via text after her serial exploitation of my generosity. She proudly paraded the incivility as proof of my 'barbarity' . Its interesting how words can be used as a hanging offence & yet the real world harms that provoked them aren't considered anywhere near as serious.

I see the Widdicombe issue the same. There's more outrage on the right about the callousness of words used to describe her & her death than the actual harm she perpetuated.

It's oldie but a goodie. Provoke people into incivility to justify oppression of them.

Heggettypeg · 17/07/2026 02:15

Whisperingwaters · 17/07/2026 02:06

A site that cherry picks ugly rhetoric & conveniently leaves out the full context of the provocation preceding it has no credibility.

Cry bullies like the Israeli government don't get to play innocent.

The ugly rhetoric exists, is out of all proportion to any so called "provocation" (ie.women daring to stand up for their rights) and has gone unpunished.

Meanwhile women have been hounded out of their jobs for daring to say that there are times when sex matters, and that they would prefer not to have to change their clothes in front of a man.

The transactivists are the crybullies, and they have been indulged for far too long.

Whisperingwaters · 17/07/2026 02:06

Heggettypeg · 17/07/2026 01:59

Go to www.terfisaslur.com and take a good look at what your dear friends and allies have been saying.

So far as I am aware, they haven't been prosecuted for it. They have enjoyed free speech and have used it as you will see. Filth and incitement to violence.

Perhaps it's time for them to reap what they have sown. But they won't, of course. The most that will happen to them - if anything ever does - is ending up in court.

A site that cherry picks ugly rhetoric & conveniently leaves out the full context of the provocation preceding it has no credibility.

Cry bullies like the Israeli government don't get to play innocent.

Whisperingwaters · 17/07/2026 02:02

Roxela · 17/07/2026 00:19

The OP is awful and littered with misrepresentations of Ann's views. It shows that the OP did not really have any understanding of what Ann actually thought, argued or believed, yet she saw fit to lay out her ill-informed views and contribute to the demonisation of Ann.

To take one misrepresentation that leapt out, Ann didn't believe science "should one day cure" homosexuality (if you are referring to her 2019 comments). Rather she exposed the inconsistency (and hypocrisy) of those who are content to believe that science can change someone's sex, but who refuse to consider that it might be possible for science to change someone's sexuality. She wasn't advocating for the science, she was exposing a double standard.

If you are going to argue with the views.of someone who is dead, at least have the decency to make sure you have honestly tried to understand them.

Oh stop white washing her obvious belief that homosexuality is 'learned' & can be 'cured'. This nutter like many conservatives had a 'groomer' mentality that she attempted to obscure by framing her homophobia as a desire for self determination.

"In her column in the Daily Express, she questions the lack of availability of therapy for “gays who do not want to be gay”.

Widdecombe wrote about the case of Lesley Pilkington, who was found guilty of malpractice by the British Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy last year.
She argues that if a gay person wants to change their sexuality, professional help should be available to them, despite a lack of scientific evidence for it working.

She wrote: “When I was training as a Samaritan in the Eighties the first principle was never to dismiss another’s priorities.

“If a man rang in and said he was gay we should never say, “Oh, that doesn’t matter, it’s OK to be gay,” if he took the opposite view.”

https://www.thepinknews.com/2012/02/02/ann-widdecombe-let-unhappy-gays-try-to-turn-straight/

Ann Widdecombe: Let unhappy gays try to turn straight

Ann Widdecombe has backed the ability of therapists to offer so-called 'gay cure' treatments to clients who want to become straight.

https://www.thepinknews.com/2012/02/02/ann-widdecombe-let-unhappy-gays-try-to-turn-straight/

Heggettypeg · 17/07/2026 01:59

Whisperingwaters · 17/07/2026 00:07

'The road of good intentions be paved with hell'……

You act as if there's no connection with violence being a consequence of free speech absolutism when we know history says otherwise:

www.un.org/en/hate-speech/understanding-hate-speech/hate-speech-and-real-harm

Go to www.terfisaslur.com and take a good look at what your dear friends and allies have been saying.

So far as I am aware, they haven't been prosecuted for it. They have enjoyed free speech and have used it as you will see. Filth and incitement to violence.

Perhaps it's time for them to reap what they have sown. But they won't, of course. The most that will happen to them - if anything ever does - is ending up in court.

Whisperingwaters · 17/07/2026 01:53

Manteiga · 17/07/2026 00:26

The Nazis and the Khmer Rouge were free speech absolutists!?

For themselves? Of course they were. They just like Trump & co do today where on one hand they saturate the media with the most most vicious lies about immigrants & on the other deport or have people terminated from their employment for stating facts or allowing protests at universities.

Manteiga · 17/07/2026 00:26

Whisperingwaters · 17/07/2026 00:07

'The road of good intentions be paved with hell'……

You act as if there's no connection with violence being a consequence of free speech absolutism when we know history says otherwise:

www.un.org/en/hate-speech/understanding-hate-speech/hate-speech-and-real-harm

The Nazis and the Khmer Rouge were free speech absolutists!?