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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Right-wing press perpetuating hate over Widdecombe

481 replies

YourHateIsShowing · 16/07/2026 08:41

The Daily Express and others claiming the reaction to Ann Widdecombe’s death has somehow “exposed the left” as hateful, is nonsense as usual.

There is hate on the left. Without question. There’s also hate on the right. There are totally extreme nut jobs on both sides, too. Neither side has a total monopoly on either. But I think it’s pretty lazy to not see past the noise and understand the origin of hatred on any side of conflict. Context is everything. And most can agree with that when it comes to certain situations. As a mother, I understand the hatred a mother would feel towards a drunk driver who ended their child’s life through one careless selfish decision to drive home from the pub intoxicated. Or for worse crimes we know exist. I’m using these examples simply to make the case that our value systems should be consistent. Not to imply the level of harm is the same in all cases. That would be an overreach.

Ann Widdecombe was a deeply controversial politician. She was unapologetic about her views on immigration, LGBTQ+ rights, welfare and poverty. I remember her response when challenged about people who couldn’t afford a cheese sandwich: her answer amounted to, “Don’t have a cheese sandwich then.” I’ve watched her for years as a speaker on right wing conservative talking points; she dedicated her life to politics, but very often in ways that supported the structural degradation of groups of already marginalised people in society. So I loathed what she stood for and I make no secret of that.
And why should others who were actually targeted or harmed by the spread of her views suddenly be expected to pretend she was a saint because of what happened to her? Or be quiet? Widdecombe was anything a saint and anything but quiet throughout her political career. Death doesn’t erase public record.

What I will say though, is this: what happened to her was awful. Abhorrent. What happened was utterly disgusting, AND so were her views on a lot of things. Views that had influence. That doesn’t mean she deserved what happened to her. I feel for her, and her family. She would have been scared. She has my empathy for that. In spades. But I certainly don’t think others who were the focus of her intolerance should be expected to rewrite history or suppress honest criticism of the suffering she supported within society, out of respect for some weird convention that says we should only speak well of the dead. I don’t buy into that.

I’m sure Ann loved her family, had close friends, and watered all her house plants. I don’t see the world in terms of heroes and villains. We can be either at any time under different circumstances. But for those who’ve maybe read 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, you may also find truth in the words of Covey who said “we are what we repeatedly do”. If you repeatedly lie, guess what? You’re a liar.

There’s truth in that, even though I mostly see people on a spectrum and not in the binary. I still see the small compounding decisions they repeatedly make, and more importantly how those decisions impact others. We can also accept conflicting ideas, where good people commit a bad act, for good reason. It’s complicated.
But overall, some people leave the world a tiny bit kinder, fairer and more compassionate as a result of those compounding decisions met with their sphere of influence. Others leave it more divided, more fearful or less equal. Most of us fall somewhere in between. And most have little influence outside our immediate circle.
Ann had more than the average bod, so I hold her and other public figures to a higher standard. She didn’t stack up, for me.

Ann Widdecombe accepted and even defended policy that saw totally unnecessary poverty and hunger (children included), in the 6th richest country in the world. She stood against abortion in cases of rape. And she consistently fought against gay rights. She repeatedly contributed to this. This is who she was. What she stood for. And what those who support her stand for.

So what the right read as hatred among the left today, in the wake of this awful event that brought her world views into sharp focus, I read as an intolerance not of her skin colour, or her sexual orientation, or her nationality, but of all she stood for and against; all she was intolerant of in people without choices.

Karl Popper’s paradox of tolerance explains this best, I think. If you’ve not come across it, it’s essentially characterised by an intolerance of intolerance itself. The difference is this: to be intolerant of someone’s skin colour, ethnicity, or other things they cannot change, such as their sexual orientation, or even level of poverty, certainly if you’re still a child born into it, is not the same as having an intolerance of those who punch down at them from a place of privilege.

Ann Widdecombe was openly homophobic and believed science should one day cure it, as if being gay were a disease to be eradicated. That’s a profound intolerance of something people cannot change. The same cannot be said of a worldview built on prejudice, bigotry or theocratic ideology. Those are beliefs. They’re decisions. They can be questioned, challenged and changed. Even after death. And if she and others like her directed more of their intolerance towards harmful ideas, rather than towards people for who they are, and for that which they cannot change, we’d have less hatred on both sides. But the root of that hatred, is glaringly obvious when you actually take the time to analyse it. Spoiler alert: it’s not coming from the left.

So this headline can get in the bin.
Where it belongs.

Right-wing press perpetuating hate over Widdecombe
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Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 10:49

Cyclebabble · 16/07/2026 10:39

Some of the output has been quite shocking. Even on the BBC's politics programme the commentator Daze Aghaji when asked about her murder just said "a lot of people will not be grieving her death". No shock at a murder, just that comment. That is before we get to the comments from a University of Aberdeen worker. My views do not concur with Weidecombe's at all, but I did find some of the comments really out of line.

It’s really fucking unnecessary. No one is expecting you to “grieve” but hold off on the smarmy comments just after the woman was brutally murdered.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 10:47

FlirtsWithRhinos · 16/07/2026 10:14

Reading this post, it struck me very strongly that both the accusations of hate and the hate itself are coming from the same side.

There is a powerful movement today that is so sure of its own rightness in all things that it feels entirely entitled to avoid hard questions by claiming that even to ask them is "hate". To avoid looking at the consequences of its values and sibboleths by claiming dissent or disagreement can only be motivated by "hate".

And so they create for themselves an environment where normal rules or morality don't matter when it comes to their political opponents. Anything is justified against people who hold different views to them because "haters don't deserve any better".

It's terrifying, and it's playing out in real time now.

It's interesting that PP referenced Popper's paradox, because he also went on to say:

"I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. "

#NoDebate is the opposite of what Popper was advocating. It's only those who will not debate yet still seek to impose their values over others that we should consider limiting.

Well said.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 16/07/2026 10:44

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 10:37

Hate speech refers to public communication that expresses animosity, disparages, or encourages violence against a person or group based on protected characteristics like race, religion, sex, or sexual orientation.

So yeah it comes under the purview of hate.

So you'd obviously characterise Bash Back Trans as a Hate group then?

And Sarah Jane "if you see a TERF, punch her in the fucking face" Baker?

And the countless dehumanising statements made about Jewish people and attacks on Jewish targets, I hope you denouce those as well?

TempestTost · 16/07/2026 10:42

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 09:36

And just who is responsible for the public discourse deteriorating to such an extent?

A toxic combination of a steady diet of dehumanisation & demonisation that passes for 'free speech' these days teamed with a removal of rights isn't going to end in kumbaya.

Its going to end in escalation. Injustice breeds vigilantism & violence. Hate breeds hate. So pointing the finger at the consequences does nothing to fix the solution.

Edited

Dehumanisation, hmm.

What is interesting here is that quite consistently people who knew her personally, across the political spectrum, said she was a likeable, kind, and compelling person.

That doesn't happen when someone dehumanises others.

There is a really flat discourse on the left at this point in history. I would say this hasn't always been the case, but I think that it is at something of a low point in terms of its intellectual life.

One area where people seem to have difficulty is understanding that discussing questions such as - what is the best way to reduce poverty in the population - can be more complicated than , if you don't vote to give them a cheese sandwich you want people to starve.

Similarly, discussions and opposing views on the nature of public institutions, what actually constitutes a right and what those rights mean, cannot and should not be reduced to "taking away rights".

In AW's case with gay marriage, the nature of the discussion is along the lines of "can rights exist relative to reproductive role?" The progressive left's belief that they can't is really not the only game in town, and the fact that they think there is no other game that isn't some kind of bigotry is more to do with outright ignorance about other perspectives than anything else.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 16/07/2026 10:40

EasternStandard · 16/07/2026 10:25

‘You reap what you sow’

On a thread about a murdered female ex MP

Are you sure you want to endorse it?

On previous post they've used 'live by the sword, die by the sword ' so I suppose we've got to give them props for recognising that they're usual retort would go down like a bucket of sick on a thread about a woman who's been brutally murdered.

Cyclebabble · 16/07/2026 10:39

Some of the output has been quite shocking. Even on the BBC's politics programme the commentator Daze Aghaji when asked about her murder just said "a lot of people will not be grieving her death". No shock at a murder, just that comment. That is before we get to the comments from a University of Aberdeen worker. My views do not concur with Weidecombe's at all, but I did find some of the comments really out of line.

WiddleWaWa · 16/07/2026 10:38

"You reap what you sow"

So the next muslim MP that passes away, we will be ripping their religion and belief apart as part of their own Eulogy will we?
We will be condemning the homophobia within Islam and digging back on FB and X to find out how many civil ceremonies/gay marriages THEY have attended and then bring up the fact the never attended any as a negative?

Should Muslim MPs be forced to attend pride? Wear pride flag badges? Host drag queen book days at mosque?

Nobody ever answers this question.

What are tolerant Christians held to a
this standard when Muslims, who have much stronger issues with homosexuality, are given a free pass?

Most Christians do not support gay marriage but they support gay people as brothers and sisters in Christ. We do not (generally, always extremist exceptions) oppose the sinner, just the sin and understand that it is only God that can judge a persons life and choices. We may not attend a gay marriage but we would welcome that married couple into our home for a meal (just as Ann W often did!!)

Whereas Muslim countries still have the death penalty for homosexuality.

Yet Christians are the problem here in England?

Or are we just the easy target?

Should we even get into the Islamic extremist slaughter of THOUSANDS of Christians in Africa who chose to die rather than convert to Islam?

When was the last time you heard of a Christian demanding conversion or death?

I am so fucking sick of the absolutely INSANE double standards from the left.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 10:38

Also, we all know why this thread has been posted in this section of the board, don’t we?

EasternStandard · 16/07/2026 10:38

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 10:34

I don't. I'm simply describing why these outcomes can occur.

It only takes one person to justify the violent outcome. No one has to. Even on here.

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 10:37

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 16/07/2026 10:30

Lawful opinions don't make them any less hateful. Its perfectly lawful for a few major religions to renounce homosexuality but its still hateful.

It's not hateful, you may hate them but that doesn't make them hateful. To call opinions you don't agree with hateful is over the top exaggeration, that devalues any arguments you have to counter the opinion. You can't just dismiss a view with such hyperbolerly and call it an opinion, it's just a rant and why should anyone pay attention to rants.

Hate speech refers to public communication that expresses animosity, disparages, or encourages violence against a person or group based on protected characteristics like race, religion, sex, or sexual orientation.

So yeah it comes under the purview of hate.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 10:37

PrizedPickledPopcorn · 16/07/2026 09:24

@YourHateIsShowing your name is accurate, from my perspective.

You equated her opinions and values to the bludgeoning to death of a 78 yr old public servant. You think her views were the equivalent of brutal murder? Your hate is showing indeed.

“What happened was utterly disgusting, AND so were her views on a lot of things”

Quite. Transparent as a window.

Seethlaw · 16/07/2026 10:36

@Whisperingwaters

I take it you don't have any example of "JKR & her incessant insinuations that trans people are mentally unwell violent sex predators" ?

As I thought. If anyone is spouting hate here, it's you.

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 10:34

EasternStandard · 16/07/2026 10:32

How much do you condone violence as the outcome? To the extent Ann Widdecombe suffered?

I don't. I'm simply describing why these outcomes can occur.

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 10:32

pleuo · 16/07/2026 10:28

The suffragettes had plenty of civil options, as do the Palestinians and the trans activists. In the end, the non-violent suffragettes were the biggest contributors to success and even if they hadn't been, violence would not have been justified.

That The Suffragettes turned to militancy because decades of their peaceful efforts were met with government inaction, dismissiveness, and brutal police repression is well reported.

That the Palestinians had civil options that were effective would be laughable if it wasn't so disgusting.

EasternStandard · 16/07/2026 10:32

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 10:27

Yeah, cause I understand what 'cause & effect' means AND history.

Edited

How much do you condone violence as the outcome? To the extent Ann Widdecombe suffered?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 10:31

1984Now · 16/07/2026 08:48

Sounds like the same narrative for Charlie Kirk murder. That he was hateful, intolerant, bigoted. Nothing justified his being killed, but don't forget just how hateful he was.
I pretty much opposed everything Peter Tatchell said in public about women and trans and his attitudes on liberalizing certain sexual relationships, but I wouldn't express any prevarication if he was bludgeoned to death. That would be wrong. End of.

Exactly this.

pleuo · 16/07/2026 10:31

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 10:24

This is showcases an ignorance of power imbalances. History shows the side with no civil options is often going to take an uncivil approach however righteous their cause is. Just ask The Suffragettes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_Turner%27s_Rebellion

It's not ignorance, I just don't agree with you about the power imbalances you are identifying. You have a simplistic approach to power in which you pick the side you prefer and ascribe all the power to the other side.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 16/07/2026 10:30

Lawful opinions don't make them any less hateful. Its perfectly lawful for a few major religions to renounce homosexuality but its still hateful.

It's not hateful, you may hate them but that doesn't make them hateful. To call opinions you don't agree with hateful is over the top exaggeration, that devalues any arguments you have to counter the opinion. You can't just dismiss a view with such hyperbolerly and call it an opinion, it's just a rant and why should anyone pay attention to rants.

Ipsevenenabibas · 16/07/2026 10:29

GwenPost · 16/07/2026 10:19

Widdicombe's opinions stemmed from her Catholic faith. She was unswerving in her convictions and traditional values and for that I admired her greatly

Why would you admire someone who delegates their moral viewpoint to a bunch of rules made up by a load of men 2000 years ago?
To me it just shows a lack of critical thinking.

And to then insist that everyone else follows their rules.
I'm not sure what the word for that is but it's certainly not admirable

For people like me, who admired her, admiration is rooted in her integrity, courage, and consistency. From this point of view, having a firm, unshifting moral foundation—even one rooted in ancient religious tradition—is a virtue. Refusal to conform to shifting cultural or political trends is admirable, in my opinion. The fact that you are asking me this question demonstrates a lack of critical thinking on your part. Hope this helps.

pleuo · 16/07/2026 10:28

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 10:24

This is showcases an ignorance of power imbalances. History shows the side with no civil options is often going to take an uncivil approach however righteous their cause is. Just ask The Suffragettes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_Turner%27s_Rebellion

The suffragettes had plenty of civil options, as do the Palestinians and the trans activists. In the end, the non-violent suffragettes were the biggest contributors to success and even if they hadn't been, violence would not have been justified.

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 10:27

EasternStandard · 16/07/2026 10:25

‘You reap what you sow’

On a thread about a murdered female ex MP

Are you sure you want to endorse it?

Yeah, cause I understand what 'cause & effect' means AND history.

EasternStandard · 16/07/2026 10:25

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 09:17

BRAVO!

There's a saying:

People write their own eulogies when they are alive.

This whole both sidesism is just a ruse to obscure the obvious imbalance in consequences between the right & left. To pretend that the impact of tiny minorities like trans people or muslim terrorists & trivialities like pronouns & not being able to blurt hate speech at others at will is some sort of existential threat that's on par with the decimation of civil & economic liberty is ridiculous.

And fancy the most hate filled media outlets that have loudly championed uncivil speech aka as free speech absolutism now crying about its proliferation?

You reap what you sow.

‘You reap what you sow’

On a thread about a murdered female ex MP

Are you sure you want to endorse it?

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 10:24

pleuo · 16/07/2026 10:17

If you have no barbarity in you or your cause, it's not possible to be provoked. Hence why you haven't seen any gender critical terrorism.

It's the classic line of the abuser who says 'she made me do it'. No one can make you do something that contravenes your principles, assuming you have them.

This is showcases an ignorance of power imbalances. History shows the side with no civil options is often going to take an uncivil approach however righteous their cause is. Just ask The Suffragettes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_Turner%27s_Rebellion

Nat Turner's Rebellion - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_Turner's_Rebellion

pleuo · 16/07/2026 10:24

GwenPost · 16/07/2026 10:19

Widdicombe's opinions stemmed from her Catholic faith. She was unswerving in her convictions and traditional values and for that I admired her greatly

Why would you admire someone who delegates their moral viewpoint to a bunch of rules made up by a load of men 2000 years ago?
To me it just shows a lack of critical thinking.

And to then insist that everyone else follows their rules.
I'm not sure what the word for that is but it's certainly not admirable

I suggest that the person who dismisses an ethical system that has had 2000 years of refinement and has stood the test of time as 'bunch of rules made up by a load of men 2000 years ago' is the person who lacks critical thinking.

Seethlaw · 16/07/2026 10:20

Excellent post, @FlirtsWithRhinos !