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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Right-wing press perpetuating hate over Widdecombe

481 replies

YourHateIsShowing · 16/07/2026 08:41

The Daily Express and others claiming the reaction to Ann Widdecombe’s death has somehow “exposed the left” as hateful, is nonsense as usual.

There is hate on the left. Without question. There’s also hate on the right. There are totally extreme nut jobs on both sides, too. Neither side has a total monopoly on either. But I think it’s pretty lazy to not see past the noise and understand the origin of hatred on any side of conflict. Context is everything. And most can agree with that when it comes to certain situations. As a mother, I understand the hatred a mother would feel towards a drunk driver who ended their child’s life through one careless selfish decision to drive home from the pub intoxicated. Or for worse crimes we know exist. I’m using these examples simply to make the case that our value systems should be consistent. Not to imply the level of harm is the same in all cases. That would be an overreach.

Ann Widdecombe was a deeply controversial politician. She was unapologetic about her views on immigration, LGBTQ+ rights, welfare and poverty. I remember her response when challenged about people who couldn’t afford a cheese sandwich: her answer amounted to, “Don’t have a cheese sandwich then.” I’ve watched her for years as a speaker on right wing conservative talking points; she dedicated her life to politics, but very often in ways that supported the structural degradation of groups of already marginalised people in society. So I loathed what she stood for and I make no secret of that.
And why should others who were actually targeted or harmed by the spread of her views suddenly be expected to pretend she was a saint because of what happened to her? Or be quiet? Widdecombe was anything a saint and anything but quiet throughout her political career. Death doesn’t erase public record.

What I will say though, is this: what happened to her was awful. Abhorrent. What happened was utterly disgusting, AND so were her views on a lot of things. Views that had influence. That doesn’t mean she deserved what happened to her. I feel for her, and her family. She would have been scared. She has my empathy for that. In spades. But I certainly don’t think others who were the focus of her intolerance should be expected to rewrite history or suppress honest criticism of the suffering she supported within society, out of respect for some weird convention that says we should only speak well of the dead. I don’t buy into that.

I’m sure Ann loved her family, had close friends, and watered all her house plants. I don’t see the world in terms of heroes and villains. We can be either at any time under different circumstances. But for those who’ve maybe read 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, you may also find truth in the words of Covey who said “we are what we repeatedly do”. If you repeatedly lie, guess what? You’re a liar.

There’s truth in that, even though I mostly see people on a spectrum and not in the binary. I still see the small compounding decisions they repeatedly make, and more importantly how those decisions impact others. We can also accept conflicting ideas, where good people commit a bad act, for good reason. It’s complicated.
But overall, some people leave the world a tiny bit kinder, fairer and more compassionate as a result of those compounding decisions met with their sphere of influence. Others leave it more divided, more fearful or less equal. Most of us fall somewhere in between. And most have little influence outside our immediate circle.
Ann had more than the average bod, so I hold her and other public figures to a higher standard. She didn’t stack up, for me.

Ann Widdecombe accepted and even defended policy that saw totally unnecessary poverty and hunger (children included), in the 6th richest country in the world. She stood against abortion in cases of rape. And she consistently fought against gay rights. She repeatedly contributed to this. This is who she was. What she stood for. And what those who support her stand for.

So what the right read as hatred among the left today, in the wake of this awful event that brought her world views into sharp focus, I read as an intolerance not of her skin colour, or her sexual orientation, or her nationality, but of all she stood for and against; all she was intolerant of in people without choices.

Karl Popper’s paradox of tolerance explains this best, I think. If you’ve not come across it, it’s essentially characterised by an intolerance of intolerance itself. The difference is this: to be intolerant of someone’s skin colour, ethnicity, or other things they cannot change, such as their sexual orientation, or even level of poverty, certainly if you’re still a child born into it, is not the same as having an intolerance of those who punch down at them from a place of privilege.

Ann Widdecombe was openly homophobic and believed science should one day cure it, as if being gay were a disease to be eradicated. That’s a profound intolerance of something people cannot change. The same cannot be said of a worldview built on prejudice, bigotry or theocratic ideology. Those are beliefs. They’re decisions. They can be questioned, challenged and changed. Even after death. And if she and others like her directed more of their intolerance towards harmful ideas, rather than towards people for who they are, and for that which they cannot change, we’d have less hatred on both sides. But the root of that hatred, is glaringly obvious when you actually take the time to analyse it. Spoiler alert: it’s not coming from the left.

So this headline can get in the bin.
Where it belongs.

Right-wing press perpetuating hate over Widdecombe
OP posts:
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13
Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 11:23

Seethlaw · 16/07/2026 11:14

I don't see someone disagreeing with something I am or do, as disagreeing with my fundamental existence - unless they are calling for my outright death. As long as it's, "I don't think this is okay, but I respect your legal right to do it anyway," it's not hateful to me. Hate only comes in when they go, "You should be officially punished for it, and I will campaign for that."

That's fine by you, I happen to feel them actively fighting against my right to marry for years and hoping I can be cured one day as disagreeing fundamentally with my existence. Could you explain in more detail how it's not hateful when the basis of her belief is literally described as hating the sin?

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 16/07/2026 11:23

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 10:17

What do you mean by this? Bearing in mind that you are posting on a thread where OP is attempting equate hatred that results in murder of an old lady with people holding lawful opinions.

Lawful opinions don't make them any less hateful. Its perfectly lawful for a few major religions to renounce homosexuality but its still hateful.

And what I mean by this is that hate speech/rhetoric & injustice breeds hateful actions that shock horror even result in genocide.

https://www.un.org/en/hate-speech/understanding-hate-speech/hate-speech-and-real-harm

You appear to be minimising the hundreds of people murdered and injured by Muslim terrorists in the last 25 years. Our country is currently at Severe threat of a terrorist attack, meaning that an attack is highly likely. So I think it’s fair to say that this ‘minority’ has a pretty huge impact on our lives.
You also appear to be minimising the impact of trans ideology on many vulnerable people lives including children being harmed and permanently damaged not to mention the removal of basic rights for half the population.

In the scheme of things a woman is substantially more likely to be murdered by her partner than a terrorist as is a man so it's hardly comparable. In terms of children being harmed, thats been proven more likely because of poor management & funding of the health system of which the right certainly don't give two hoots about.

It is the current Labour government that are creating the decimation of civil & economic liberty in this country.

Oh yeah they are sooo much worse than the former caring tories. NOT.

Lawful opinions don't make them any less hateful. Its perfectly lawful for a few major religions to renounce homosexuality but its still hateful.

And what I mean by this is that hate speech/rhetoric & injustice breeds hateful actions that shock horror even result in genocide.

So you are happy to denounce ‘major religions’ as hateful in their views against homosexuality and suggest that these hateful views lead to hateful actions including genocide.

Yet you still minimise the effect of Islamic terrorism even though it is a direct result of these hateful views.

And you further imply that it is inevitable that the general opinions of a former politician which were not manifested in her personal life at all caused her murder? In fact her kindness to individuals regardless of any facts of their lives was well known.

And you think you’re one of the good guys?

Ipsevenenabibas · 16/07/2026 11:20

@GwenPost From a Catholic perspective, "unquestioning acceptance" is not considered a virtue in itself. The Church has always held that faith and reason go together. Catholics are encouraged to seek understanding, ask questions, wrestle with difficult teachings, and form their consciences properly—not simply accept ideas uncritically.
At the same time, Christians are called to accept and love every person because each is made in the image of God. That acceptance of the person is different from agreeing that every belief or behaviour is morally right. Christ Himself welcomed sinners with compassion while also calling people to conversion.
So I would say that "unquestioning acceptance" is a bit of a straw man. The Christian ideal isn't blind affirmation of everything, nor is it rejection of people. It's discerning truth through reason, Scripture, and the Church's teaching, while treating every person with dignity, charity, and respect—even when we disagree with them.

pleuo · 16/07/2026 11:19

GwenPost · 16/07/2026 10:57

My critical faculties are fine thanks. But instead of personal remarks perhaps you can explain why it is 'admirable' to accept a set of moral values handed down by a religion without questioning any of it

Especially a set of beliefs that includes 'homosexuality is a sin'
Any discussion i've ever had with religious people boils down to 'because god said so'
I'm genuinely baffled by why this unquestioning acceptance is seen as a good thing

People with any or no religion can show a worrying 'unquestioning acceptance' of certain values. This is the usual recourse of lazy or stupid people. Hence those who parroted 'trans women are women' with absolutely no attempt at critical thinking at all.

When it comes to religious faith, people approach it in different ways. Some will unquestioningly accept everything the vicar says, others will engage in vigorous debate. Most religious people end up somewhere in the middle, using the teaching of their faith as a basis for their own moral worldview. This is much more likely to be robust than adopting values that have not stood the test of time or been refined by thousands of years of scholarship and scrutiny. Often people who are not Christian end up adopting Christian values (like the inherent equal dignity of all people) without understanding where they have come from or why they believe them. I admire people like AW who engage with their faith because it shows a steadfastness and a moral seriousness that many people (myself included) lack.

Shortshriftandlethal · 16/07/2026 11:19

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 16/07/2026 10:10

Ann Widdecombe was openly homophobic and believed science should one day cure it, as if being gay were a disease to be eradicated. That’s a profound intolerance of something people cannot change.

I’d like to see evidence of this ‘homophobia’ from Ann because I happen to know of her personal interactions with several gay people and she was delightful. As I said before, many of her views have been distorted and taken out of context to further a nasty agenda.

Do you have the same level of criticism for the large proportion of Muslims in this country that hold similar opinions? What about the Muslims in other countries that punish homosexuality with death? What about the Muslims who hold those opinions that move here?

Matthew Parris was saying yesterday that many gay he knew men loved Anne Widdicombe - because of her larger than life persona and her theatricality.

Waitwhat23 · 16/07/2026 11:17

pleuo · 16/07/2026 09:55

Exactly this. It is perfectly possible to disagree with someone's opinions or lifestyle without hating them. But I think people who don't understand this are projecting their own inability to separate ideas from emotions. They have strong negative feelings towards people they disagree with and they can't understand that other people don't - they can disagree and feel actually quite positive.

It is also entirely normal and respectful that when someone dies, particularly in such a terrible way, for a period of time all we express is lament or pity. Commentary and criticism can come later. By starting up a dialogue about the deceased's morals or view so soon, the OP is demonstrating the lack of courtesy and respect that has just become normal and is creating the general atmosphere of 'hate'.

Your second paragraph is spot on.

There's practically been a rush of people determined to be counted as someone who has publically demonstrated that they have suitably condemmed her. There's been a lot of 'oh well, a woman being murdered in her home is a bit sad but it was Widdecombe after all!'.

She died very recently. You'd think there would be even a small period of 'fucking hell, what an awful thing to happen - that poor woman' without the segue into '...but'.

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 11:17

TempestTost · 16/07/2026 11:08

Who is disagreeing with anyone's "fundamental existence"?

I am quite sure that is something that AW would not have agreed with, it would be very much against her religious convictions and every actual interaction she ever seemed to have with people.

Uhh by literally arguing science could hopefully cure them? As though there's something wrong with someone being homosexual, as well as being active in blocking our right to marry. I see it the same a misogynist arguing they don't disagree or hate the existence of women, if you impose enough restrictions on women and perpetuate misogyny, you really can't claim to not hate women's existence you just believe xyz.

Seethlaw · 16/07/2026 11:14

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 10:58

I'm not sure I agree that disagreeing with someone's fundamental existence isn't hateful. To me my sexuality isn't an opinion of a lifestyle, it's there whether you live it or not. Disagreeing with something fundamental or suggesting or hoping it should be cured isn't neutral or loving, and is hateful to imo, because its completely rooted in the christian logic of "hating the sin not the sinner" which is how the defenses of her opinions sound here, "she hated my sexuality but not me" and I'm quite surprised that women especially queer women would give such an old fashioned patriarchal agenda the time of day. It's fine to admit her opinions were our of date, completely unfactual discriminatory and hateful without agreeing with murder.

I don't see someone disagreeing with something I am or do, as disagreeing with my fundamental existence - unless they are calling for my outright death. As long as it's, "I don't think this is okay, but I respect your legal right to do it anyway," it's not hateful to me. Hate only comes in when they go, "You should be officially punished for it, and I will campaign for that."

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 16/07/2026 11:13

"...isn't neutral or loving,.."

And if it isn't either of these it must be hateful, not disrespectful, or rude, impolite, or even pompous but straight to hateful.

Shortshriftandlethal · 16/07/2026 11:10

YourHateIsShowing · 16/07/2026 08:41

The Daily Express and others claiming the reaction to Ann Widdecombe’s death has somehow “exposed the left” as hateful, is nonsense as usual.

There is hate on the left. Without question. There’s also hate on the right. There are totally extreme nut jobs on both sides, too. Neither side has a total monopoly on either. But I think it’s pretty lazy to not see past the noise and understand the origin of hatred on any side of conflict. Context is everything. And most can agree with that when it comes to certain situations. As a mother, I understand the hatred a mother would feel towards a drunk driver who ended their child’s life through one careless selfish decision to drive home from the pub intoxicated. Or for worse crimes we know exist. I’m using these examples simply to make the case that our value systems should be consistent. Not to imply the level of harm is the same in all cases. That would be an overreach.

Ann Widdecombe was a deeply controversial politician. She was unapologetic about her views on immigration, LGBTQ+ rights, welfare and poverty. I remember her response when challenged about people who couldn’t afford a cheese sandwich: her answer amounted to, “Don’t have a cheese sandwich then.” I’ve watched her for years as a speaker on right wing conservative talking points; she dedicated her life to politics, but very often in ways that supported the structural degradation of groups of already marginalised people in society. So I loathed what she stood for and I make no secret of that.
And why should others who were actually targeted or harmed by the spread of her views suddenly be expected to pretend she was a saint because of what happened to her? Or be quiet? Widdecombe was anything a saint and anything but quiet throughout her political career. Death doesn’t erase public record.

What I will say though, is this: what happened to her was awful. Abhorrent. What happened was utterly disgusting, AND so were her views on a lot of things. Views that had influence. That doesn’t mean she deserved what happened to her. I feel for her, and her family. She would have been scared. She has my empathy for that. In spades. But I certainly don’t think others who were the focus of her intolerance should be expected to rewrite history or suppress honest criticism of the suffering she supported within society, out of respect for some weird convention that says we should only speak well of the dead. I don’t buy into that.

I’m sure Ann loved her family, had close friends, and watered all her house plants. I don’t see the world in terms of heroes and villains. We can be either at any time under different circumstances. But for those who’ve maybe read 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, you may also find truth in the words of Covey who said “we are what we repeatedly do”. If you repeatedly lie, guess what? You’re a liar.

There’s truth in that, even though I mostly see people on a spectrum and not in the binary. I still see the small compounding decisions they repeatedly make, and more importantly how those decisions impact others. We can also accept conflicting ideas, where good people commit a bad act, for good reason. It’s complicated.
But overall, some people leave the world a tiny bit kinder, fairer and more compassionate as a result of those compounding decisions met with their sphere of influence. Others leave it more divided, more fearful or less equal. Most of us fall somewhere in between. And most have little influence outside our immediate circle.
Ann had more than the average bod, so I hold her and other public figures to a higher standard. She didn’t stack up, for me.

Ann Widdecombe accepted and even defended policy that saw totally unnecessary poverty and hunger (children included), in the 6th richest country in the world. She stood against abortion in cases of rape. And she consistently fought against gay rights. She repeatedly contributed to this. This is who she was. What she stood for. And what those who support her stand for.

So what the right read as hatred among the left today, in the wake of this awful event that brought her world views into sharp focus, I read as an intolerance not of her skin colour, or her sexual orientation, or her nationality, but of all she stood for and against; all she was intolerant of in people without choices.

Karl Popper’s paradox of tolerance explains this best, I think. If you’ve not come across it, it’s essentially characterised by an intolerance of intolerance itself. The difference is this: to be intolerant of someone’s skin colour, ethnicity, or other things they cannot change, such as their sexual orientation, or even level of poverty, certainly if you’re still a child born into it, is not the same as having an intolerance of those who punch down at them from a place of privilege.

Ann Widdecombe was openly homophobic and believed science should one day cure it, as if being gay were a disease to be eradicated. That’s a profound intolerance of something people cannot change. The same cannot be said of a worldview built on prejudice, bigotry or theocratic ideology. Those are beliefs. They’re decisions. They can be questioned, challenged and changed. Even after death. And if she and others like her directed more of their intolerance towards harmful ideas, rather than towards people for who they are, and for that which they cannot change, we’d have less hatred on both sides. But the root of that hatred, is glaringly obvious when you actually take the time to analyse it. Spoiler alert: it’s not coming from the left.

So this headline can get in the bin.
Where it belongs.

You have no idea how Ann Widdicombe talked to and treated people who were gay, or who disagreed with her religious beliefs, in her everyday life.

The measure of someone is in how they treat other people they come into contact with and in how they talk about other people.....not in the political views they hold.

Holding to the 'correct' or 'righteous' political views is no guarantee that you will treat other people with compassion or respect in your daily life; or be tolerant towards those that disagree with you. In fact some of the most intolerant and vitriolic and hateful behaviour is often displayed that those proclaim the 'correct' or righteous views.

Be the change you want to see. Don't preach it.

TempestTost · 16/07/2026 11:08

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 10:58

I'm not sure I agree that disagreeing with someone's fundamental existence isn't hateful. To me my sexuality isn't an opinion of a lifestyle, it's there whether you live it or not. Disagreeing with something fundamental or suggesting or hoping it should be cured isn't neutral or loving, and is hateful to imo, because its completely rooted in the christian logic of "hating the sin not the sinner" which is how the defenses of her opinions sound here, "she hated my sexuality but not me" and I'm quite surprised that women especially queer women would give such an old fashioned patriarchal agenda the time of day. It's fine to admit her opinions were our of date, completely unfactual discriminatory and hateful without agreeing with murder.

Who is disagreeing with anyone's "fundamental existence"?

I am quite sure that is something that AW would not have agreed with, it would be very much against her religious convictions and every actual interaction she ever seemed to have with people.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 11:04

Also, while we’re on that topic, women who enable men who claim to be women to shit on other women are the most cringeworthy “pick mes” of all time.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 11:03

You’d think.

Seethlaw · 16/07/2026 11:02

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 10:58

Going to need to see a citation for that claim about JKR. Otherwise, I think you should probably retract it.

I asked for it - twice. Nothing so far. You'd think it would be easy, if she does it "incessantly"...

Additup · 16/07/2026 11:00

That's a lot of words to say you really didn't like Ann Widdecombe and you're glad she's dead but its okay for you to speak ill of the dead because she was was a nasty right winger and you're a lovely lefty.

Go and polish your halo OP and while you're at it try and learn some class.

WiddleWaWa · 16/07/2026 10:59

@MarieDeGournay Like I said, I don't believe I am far right but I think the general perception of my political views would be that, especially from the left. People I used to associate with have labelled me as such. It's the same situation as the people on England Marches, who are concerned mothers living next to HMOs, are labelled by our own Priminister as Far Right and hateful/divisive for being concerned about the levels of unvetted immigrant males from dangerous countries being allowed in.

So I don't feel I am far right, no. I feel my views are very middle of the road but I was pointing out that many women who were previously labour supporters/left feel they have been moved over to the right. Not by their own violation but because of the shift in the goalposts/ the sliding scale.

Edit to say it almost feels like it's a battle between common sense/ reality and the left sometimes.

So many of their arguments are rooted in non tangible things driven by emotion and feelings. Which are important of course, but we cannot base rules, laws and legislation on feelings because they vary so much from person to person. We need to stick to science, facts and statistics.

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 10:58

I'm not sure I agree that disagreeing with someone's fundamental existence isn't hateful. To me my sexuality isn't an opinion of a lifestyle, it's there whether you live it or not. Disagreeing with something fundamental or suggesting or hoping it should be cured isn't neutral or loving, and is hateful to imo, because its completely rooted in the christian logic of "hating the sin not the sinner" which is how the defenses of her opinions sound here, "she hated my sexuality but not me" and I'm quite surprised that women especially queer women would give such an old fashioned patriarchal agenda the time of day. It's fine to admit her opinions were our of date, completely unfactual discriminatory and hateful without agreeing with murder.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 10:58

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 09:54

And just who is responsible for the public discourse deteriorating to such an extent?
The TRAs.

The TRA's aren't doing the dehumanising & demonising that be JKR & her incessant insinuations that trans people are mentally unwell violent sex predators.

The only people who've been systematically dehumanised are women.
And the only ones who've been systematically demonised are GC people.

Playing innocent about their callous mocking that you know happens routinely on this forum & on social media? A 'pick me!' is made in such ways.

Trans people have not lost any rights.

Oh, so the whole SC ruling changed nothing? Okaaaay.

TRAs are the only ones wishing and acting for this escalation. Women and GC people don't. So if it does escalate, it'll be clear where it comes from.

I would suggest a quick google of 'cause & effect' but that would be a waste of time.

Going to need to see a citation for that claim about JKR. Otherwise, I think you should probably retract it.

GwenPost · 16/07/2026 10:57

pleuo · 16/07/2026 10:24

I suggest that the person who dismisses an ethical system that has had 2000 years of refinement and has stood the test of time as 'bunch of rules made up by a load of men 2000 years ago' is the person who lacks critical thinking.

My critical faculties are fine thanks. But instead of personal remarks perhaps you can explain why it is 'admirable' to accept a set of moral values handed down by a religion without questioning any of it

Especially a set of beliefs that includes 'homosexuality is a sin'
Any discussion i've ever had with religious people boils down to 'because god said so'
I'm genuinely baffled by why this unquestioning acceptance is seen as a good thing

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 16/07/2026 10:56

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 10:04

You'll hear people saying that Palestinian violence is 'understandable' because of the years of oppression, but the same people will say that Israelis should be expected to behave with responsible moderation.

Another sterling example of both sidesism in the service of cry bullying. As if Israel hasn't for decades inhumanely provoked such an inhumane reaction….just so they could justify further inhumane ethnic cleansing & land theft. It's the far right's MO to provoke people with no legal recourse to barbarity only to point to their barbarity as justification for oppression.

You have a very warped and one sided view of a complex conflict.

I suggest you read up on what actually happened rather than believing everything you are fed by the ‘progressive left’. I have listened to lots of accounts by people who actually know the history and you are incorrect in your characterisation of this.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 10:54

pleuo · 16/07/2026 10:31

It's not ignorance, I just don't agree with you about the power imbalances you are identifying. You have a simplistic approach to power in which you pick the side you prefer and ascribe all the power to the other side.

Exactly.

TempestTost · 16/07/2026 10:53

pleuo · 16/07/2026 09:55

Exactly this. It is perfectly possible to disagree with someone's opinions or lifestyle without hating them. But I think people who don't understand this are projecting their own inability to separate ideas from emotions. They have strong negative feelings towards people they disagree with and they can't understand that other people don't - they can disagree and feel actually quite positive.

It is also entirely normal and respectful that when someone dies, particularly in such a terrible way, for a period of time all we express is lament or pity. Commentary and criticism can come later. By starting up a dialogue about the deceased's morals or view so soon, the OP is demonstrating the lack of courtesy and respect that has just become normal and is creating the general atmosphere of 'hate'.

I think your first paragraph here is really important.

Many of the people who comment this way - and it really is a lot I'm afraid - have a really immature and undeveloped emotional intelligence.

This seems to me to be true IRL of many of the BeKinders I know. To the point that quite a few of them seem to have what almost seems to be some kind of deficit.

One lady I know in particular always comes to mind, she is a supporter of all BeKind initiatives and truly can't seem to comprehend when people she knows are in fact kind don't also jump on board with all of these causes. Or in fact even when people seem to have different takes, in what to her is a non PC way, on what's going on in a novel. The reason she comes to mind in particular is because she is a child psychologist and well respected locally in her profession.

I find myself wondering if people have always been like this, including people in jobs where they should be highly emotionally intelligent? Or has something gone wrong and there are now more people like this? And is it true, as it seems to me at times, that they are clustered on the left? What is going on with it all?

MarieDeGournay · 16/07/2026 10:53

WiddleWaWa Now, I have been pushed into what you would describe as 'far right'. I don't feel far right. I don't hate anyone. I don't judge by skin colour or sexuality and I absolutely wouldnt discriminate based on that. But I do now feel that TWAM, that womens spaces should be for biological women only. That The TQIA++++ is detrimental to the LGB. And I also strongly believe that it is Gods will that the sanctity of marriage be between a man and a woman.

I'm puzzled by this part of your post, WiddleWaWa - what part of 'that TWAM, that womens spaces should be for biological women only. That The TQIA++++ is detrimental to the LGB' do you think makes you 'far right'?

That sounds like standard feminist, including lesbian feminist, fare, and indeed probably what most average members of the public believe too.
It is a set of beliefs often expressed on this board, by women who have been would be considered 'left wing' all their adult lives - trade unionists, campaigners against the blatant racism of past decades, workers in refuges..

I don't see anything even remotely 'far right' about what you now believe.

And as for 'I also strongly believe that it is Gods will that the sanctity of marriage be between a man and a woman.' - that's not 'grating' at all to me.
I don't believe in God, so I have no opinion about what her will is about marriage or anything else.
However, I was always careful to say that the campaign for marriage equality was a campaign to extend to homosexual citizens the same right to enter into the legal contract of marriage as heterosexual citizens.

Whether churches choose to offer marriage ceremonies to same-sex couples is, I believe, their business. Some do, some don't. Some lesbian and gay people are, like yourself, people of faith, and it is up to them to intervene with their churches about same-sex marriage.

As long as I have the same legal rights as my fellow-citizens, I leave the theological debates to the believers.

So your strong belief in God's will about marriage isn't right-wing either, it is a position on the doctrine of whatever church you belong to, which could also be held by someone who would otherwise be described as 'left-wing'.

There are trans activists who say - very loudly and very aggressively - that we're all hate-fuelled right wingers because we believe that TWAM, that womens spaces should be for biological women only. That The TQIA++++ is detrimental to the LGB.

They're demonstrably wrong. If that's you're basis for feeling that you are 'right wing' now, I don't think you've shown anything right-wing in what you say are your beliefs.
Maybe you have other opinions that are 'right wing', maybe you have a different definition of 'right wing', maybe you like being called 'right wing', I don't know.

But somebody who doesn't hate anybody, doesn't judge by colour or creed, believes in free speech and that everybody, including women, are entitled to human rights - you sound like you'd fit in very well in any of the circles of vaguely 'left-wing' lesbian feminists I've had the pleasure to mix with🙂

Applepe · 16/07/2026 10:53

Absolute left wing waffle, trying to make excuses for the hate spewing from the left over Ann Widdicombe’s murder. The left were gleefully celebrating the violent death of a woman at the hands of man because she had views and opinions that they won’t tolerate, because according to the left their view is the correct one and violence is the only answer if you oppose it. Ann wasn’t homophobic, she had many gay friends, but she held her religious beliefs in high esteem. I suggest you go to a local mosque and tell them that their views on homosexuality are intolerant and see how that goes down. Unlike the left, Ann Widdicombe accepted opposing views and didn’t force her opinion.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 16/07/2026 10:52

GwenPost · 16/07/2026 10:19

Widdicombe's opinions stemmed from her Catholic faith. She was unswerving in her convictions and traditional values and for that I admired her greatly

Why would you admire someone who delegates their moral viewpoint to a bunch of rules made up by a load of men 2000 years ago?
To me it just shows a lack of critical thinking.

And to then insist that everyone else follows their rules.
I'm not sure what the word for that is but it's certainly not admirable

This demonstrates a lack of understanding of Christian theology. Christianity is not a set of rules written by men 2000 years ago, though some Christians admittedly act as if that was the case so the misunderstanding is understandable! The Bible contains opposing views and philosophical / theological debate, though I would argue that there is a thread of consensus running through it, and the development of first a Jewish and then, for those who accept the New Testament, a Christian worldview. There are sophisticated arguments and poetical depictions of concepts (for example in the book of Job which struggles with the problem of suffering), not just the simple maxims imagined by people who have never engaged with the texts. There is the humorous tale of Jonah who didn't like what God was telling him. There are flawed heroes, marginalised women such as Rahab, a "sex worker" who was applauded for her faith and actions, and many other varied characters displaying the whole range of human behaviour types.

As I'm sure you realise, there is still a lot of debate within Christianity, and Ann Widdecombe will undoubtedly have had her views challenged by other Christians. Christians are not all fundamentalists, and they are not all liberals.