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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Right-wing press perpetuating hate over Widdecombe

481 replies

YourHateIsShowing · 16/07/2026 08:41

The Daily Express and others claiming the reaction to Ann Widdecombe’s death has somehow “exposed the left” as hateful, is nonsense as usual.

There is hate on the left. Without question. There’s also hate on the right. There are totally extreme nut jobs on both sides, too. Neither side has a total monopoly on either. But I think it’s pretty lazy to not see past the noise and understand the origin of hatred on any side of conflict. Context is everything. And most can agree with that when it comes to certain situations. As a mother, I understand the hatred a mother would feel towards a drunk driver who ended their child’s life through one careless selfish decision to drive home from the pub intoxicated. Or for worse crimes we know exist. I’m using these examples simply to make the case that our value systems should be consistent. Not to imply the level of harm is the same in all cases. That would be an overreach.

Ann Widdecombe was a deeply controversial politician. She was unapologetic about her views on immigration, LGBTQ+ rights, welfare and poverty. I remember her response when challenged about people who couldn’t afford a cheese sandwich: her answer amounted to, “Don’t have a cheese sandwich then.” I’ve watched her for years as a speaker on right wing conservative talking points; she dedicated her life to politics, but very often in ways that supported the structural degradation of groups of already marginalised people in society. So I loathed what she stood for and I make no secret of that.
And why should others who were actually targeted or harmed by the spread of her views suddenly be expected to pretend she was a saint because of what happened to her? Or be quiet? Widdecombe was anything a saint and anything but quiet throughout her political career. Death doesn’t erase public record.

What I will say though, is this: what happened to her was awful. Abhorrent. What happened was utterly disgusting, AND so were her views on a lot of things. Views that had influence. That doesn’t mean she deserved what happened to her. I feel for her, and her family. She would have been scared. She has my empathy for that. In spades. But I certainly don’t think others who were the focus of her intolerance should be expected to rewrite history or suppress honest criticism of the suffering she supported within society, out of respect for some weird convention that says we should only speak well of the dead. I don’t buy into that.

I’m sure Ann loved her family, had close friends, and watered all her house plants. I don’t see the world in terms of heroes and villains. We can be either at any time under different circumstances. But for those who’ve maybe read 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, you may also find truth in the words of Covey who said “we are what we repeatedly do”. If you repeatedly lie, guess what? You’re a liar.

There’s truth in that, even though I mostly see people on a spectrum and not in the binary. I still see the small compounding decisions they repeatedly make, and more importantly how those decisions impact others. We can also accept conflicting ideas, where good people commit a bad act, for good reason. It’s complicated.
But overall, some people leave the world a tiny bit kinder, fairer and more compassionate as a result of those compounding decisions met with their sphere of influence. Others leave it more divided, more fearful or less equal. Most of us fall somewhere in between. And most have little influence outside our immediate circle.
Ann had more than the average bod, so I hold her and other public figures to a higher standard. She didn’t stack up, for me.

Ann Widdecombe accepted and even defended policy that saw totally unnecessary poverty and hunger (children included), in the 6th richest country in the world. She stood against abortion in cases of rape. And she consistently fought against gay rights. She repeatedly contributed to this. This is who she was. What she stood for. And what those who support her stand for.

So what the right read as hatred among the left today, in the wake of this awful event that brought her world views into sharp focus, I read as an intolerance not of her skin colour, or her sexual orientation, or her nationality, but of all she stood for and against; all she was intolerant of in people without choices.

Karl Popper’s paradox of tolerance explains this best, I think. If you’ve not come across it, it’s essentially characterised by an intolerance of intolerance itself. The difference is this: to be intolerant of someone’s skin colour, ethnicity, or other things they cannot change, such as their sexual orientation, or even level of poverty, certainly if you’re still a child born into it, is not the same as having an intolerance of those who punch down at them from a place of privilege.

Ann Widdecombe was openly homophobic and believed science should one day cure it, as if being gay were a disease to be eradicated. That’s a profound intolerance of something people cannot change. The same cannot be said of a worldview built on prejudice, bigotry or theocratic ideology. Those are beliefs. They’re decisions. They can be questioned, challenged and changed. Even after death. And if she and others like her directed more of their intolerance towards harmful ideas, rather than towards people for who they are, and for that which they cannot change, we’d have less hatred on both sides. But the root of that hatred, is glaringly obvious when you actually take the time to analyse it. Spoiler alert: it’s not coming from the left.

So this headline can get in the bin.
Where it belongs.

Right-wing press perpetuating hate over Widdecombe
OP posts:
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13
nauticant · 16/07/2026 12:35

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 12:30

Just to update, because it is relevant, trans rights activist Heather Herbert has been arrested and charged. I’m not sure what with.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2ln31g8gvo

My guess would be Section 127, Communications Act 2003.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 12:34

I’m not going to start making it a TAAT. Believe me or don’t, it’s not that interesting. I was explaining why I felt what I did.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 16/07/2026 12:34

Thanks for the update, with any luck malicious communication, should put the fear of god into all those nasty keyboard warriors. 😁

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 12:33

Yep @FlirtsWithRhinos

BlessingYou · 16/07/2026 12:32

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 12:25

Exactly @Linzloopy. I felt the same about Charlie Kirk, another horrific murder of someone most of us disagree with on most things, about which people felt the need to post their fatuous little gloats. There are still people whinging all over the board that they were “told what to think”. No, they were disagreed with on the appropriateness of their crass comments immediately following the brutal murder of someone for political reasons.

I’ve never seen anyone claim they were told what to think about CK’s death on this board. Do you have a link?

FlirtsWithRhinos · 16/07/2026 12:32

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 11:53

But of course you’re deflecting from how crass, hateful and absurd your own posts are @Whisperingwaters

A new username but not that ones first rodeo I think. The name-changing pigeons always start out trying to portray a new voice but as the posts go on the same old writing patterns and topic obsessions creep back in.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 12:30

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 11:56

Just to update, because it is relevant, trans rights activist Heather Herbert has been arrested and charged. I’m not sure what with.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2ln31g8gvo

Ann Widdecombe - a grey-haired woman is pictured on a street. She is wearing a purple jacket and top.

Aberdeen University worker charged over Ann Widdecombe death comments

Police Scotland had initially said there was no criminality but have now confirmed a 50-year-old has been arrested and charged.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2ln31g8gvo

MrsOvertonsWindow · 16/07/2026 12:29

Ipsevenenabibas · 16/07/2026 09:37

We live in an era where the least succesful, most chronically online social outcasts have loud voices that are heard now. It’s made abnormal, frankly degenerate, behaviours completely normal. There's a sad irony to the fact that the #bekind mob are the least kind and most intolerant people going. Ann Widdicombe's opinions stemmed from her Catholic faith. She was unswerving in her convictions and traditional values and for that I admired her greatly. I am saddened by her murder and disgusted by the online response. I really wish people would remember that if you having nothing good to say than it is best to say nothing at all.

Requiem aeternam dona ei, Domine, et lux perpetua luceat ei. Requiescat in pace.

Indeed.
Isn't it telling when posters only join Mumsnet to post emotionally incontinent rants on this board criticising women. And who use the brutal murder of an elderly women as an opportunity to descend on here sneering, seething & attacking feminist women. (Advanced search is always useful)

That they are met with a range of intelligent, empathic and insightful responses is a testament to the wonderful women on here who have shown nothing but compassion for AW and a rejection of the disgusting hate shown by too many after this awful event.

As @Ipsevenenabibas pointed out:

"We live in an era where the least succesful, most chronically online social outcasts have loud voices that are heard now. It’s made abnormal, frankly degenerate, behaviours completely normal. There's a sad irony to the fact that the #bekind mob are the least kind and most intolerant people going"

Noras · 16/07/2026 12:29

Those who steer left have a smug moral superiority and strongly believe that they know what is the appropriate way to think. Anyone who has dissenting views is a not nice person on their eyes.i don’t like this

I am politically homeless. I support gay marriage and trans rights but also understand how some women feel intimidated by it all. I believe in discourse and trying to accommodate everyone. I am also pro Europe but worry about higher taxes and their impact on business.

I guess I am a centralist - but no party aligns with that anymore.

i also feel extremely saddened that someone in politics got killed in this way and alone. I think that anyone who is passionate about politicos enough and have convictions in their views deserves respect. For that reason I have respect for Jeremy Corbyn and Rees Moggs but dislike the views of both.

I felt sad that my local council did not pay any respects to her whereas they did hold a minutes silence for Jo Cox.

I would not have wanted to have coffee with her but nonetheless I respected her and her passion.

DemiVie · 16/07/2026 12:26

@WiddleWaWa

But how, as a human, can you not be sad about the murder of a 78 year old woman in her own home because she was 'a divisive figure'?

Agree completely. Politics aside, what we should be focusing on here is the abhorrent murder of an elderly woman in her home. Politics can come later. The act itself is terrible.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 12:25

Exactly @Linzloopy. I felt the same about Charlie Kirk, another horrific murder of someone most of us disagree with on most things, about which people felt the need to post their fatuous little gloats. There are still people whinging all over the board that they were “told what to think”. No, they were disagreed with on the appropriateness of their crass comments immediately following the brutal murder of someone for political reasons.

GwenPost · 16/07/2026 12:21

@RapidOnsetGenderCritic

you're right about my lack of understanding of Christian theology. Being brought up catholic and schooled in a convent does rather put one off learning any more.

Christianity's 'problem' with homosexuality does seem like some random rule made up a long time ago. And if our laws are going to be influenced by it then I think it's ok to call it out as such.

People can believe whatever they want but these beliefs need examination before we impose them on others

Linzloopy · 16/07/2026 12:15

What a long-winded, repetitive, pompous way of making it clear that you don’t understand there is such a thing as human decency.

Most people appreciate that even if you disagree with all someone's opinions (as I disagreed with AW's), the days after that person's murder are not the right time to go out of your way to express your hatred of them.

In any case, by all accounts she was a kind and amusing person in real life - Matthew Parris, a gay journalist who knew her quite well, wrote that he found some of her stated opinions appalling but "liked her tremendously".

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 16/07/2026 12:15

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 11:17

Uhh by literally arguing science could hopefully cure them? As though there's something wrong with someone being homosexual, as well as being active in blocking our right to marry. I see it the same a misogynist arguing they don't disagree or hate the existence of women, if you impose enough restrictions on women and perpetuate misogyny, you really can't claim to not hate women's existence you just believe xyz.

You’re misrepresenting what she said though. She wasn’t presenting it as a problem that she wanted people ‘cured’, she was speculating on possible scientific advances in the future along the lines of the information being presented by trusted scientific organisations of the time that people could change sex. It’s a perfectly logical position (albeit based on the activist lies). If people can change sex, they can also change sexuality.

She appeared to be coming from a place of empathy - she recognised that some people have experienced distress with their sexuality (particularly historically in her lifetime) so was musing on whether there might be some scientific development that could help them.

The so called ‘progressive left’ are nothing but selective and dishonest when presenting their version of the views of those they dislike as fact.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 16/07/2026 12:13

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 11:48

Wrong. The piece quotes JKR directly. That you’re cognitive bias makes you incapable of understanding the obvious logical conclusions from those quotes makes it impossible for you to comprehend her transphobia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitivebias

Edited

"Her latest attempt at explaining herself only made her transphobia even more obvious.."

Any article that starts like that can easily be dismissed as propagander, you'll need to quote a reliable source to prove your point, not a hatchet job.
Big fail.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 16/07/2026 12:11

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 10:58

I'm not sure I agree that disagreeing with someone's fundamental existence isn't hateful. To me my sexuality isn't an opinion of a lifestyle, it's there whether you live it or not. Disagreeing with something fundamental or suggesting or hoping it should be cured isn't neutral or loving, and is hateful to imo, because its completely rooted in the christian logic of "hating the sin not the sinner" which is how the defenses of her opinions sound here, "she hated my sexuality but not me" and I'm quite surprised that women especially queer women would give such an old fashioned patriarchal agenda the time of day. It's fine to admit her opinions were our of date, completely unfactual discriminatory and hateful without agreeing with murder.

I'm interested in this.

If a person does not feel hate, are they still hateful if someone else believes their beliefs are wrong?

It seems to me this is at the heart of it - the assertion that certain views are an objectively true demonstration of the emotional state of the person who holds them, regardless of whether that person blieves they are in that emotional state or not.

It is very convenient for the accuser to be able to dismiss people with whom they disagree as being motivated by an irrational emotional state that exists behind their words rather than considering what they actually say and why.

And it is also never going to move past that if one person is being dismissed as feeling hate when that person knows that hate is not what they feel.

Intolerance. Prejudice. Lack of education. Getting involved in things that don;t concern you. Applying arbitrary and illogical rules. Not appreciating the challanges or needs of other people. Lack of empathy. Selfishness. Fear. All of these are potentially valid criticisms of perspectives currently being lazily dismissed as "hate". And any of these would be a more useful, more effective, place to start from than simply assuming it is an emotional "hate".

ThreeLocusts · 16/07/2026 12:09

Thanks @Bosky for posting those songs. I didn't know them.

This thread has rather gone off the rails, hasn't it?

Odd how tricky it is to respond appropriately when a controversial public figure dies. With Lindsey Graham over in the US, I almost posted somewhere much mor public than mn about the obvious thing that nobody mentioned: the man was less a weather vane than just the consummate sidekick. He needed a hero to follow. If McCain were still alive, Graham would still be his poodle, not Trump's, with the opinions to fit.

But I didn't post it because it felt ghoulish.

Similarly, it feels ghoulish to muse at great length on the toxicity of Widdecombe's political views, however evident.

I moved to the UK as a young adult in the 90s. I couldn't help noticing that then, women really stood out like sore thumbs amid the public-schoolboy-maleness of the Tory party. Widdecombe's was one of the very few female faces. Despite my dislike of her policies, she forced some grudging respect out of me for being so obviously disinterested in being in any way fashionable. Her opinions were often mean, but she meant them and she wouldn't change them to be liked. Something to be said for that.

I left the UK in 2016 and I haven't followed her descent into Reform territory. It's a pity she went that way.

She was an elderly woman who was brutally killed in her own home. That's too awful for words. And has anyone else noticed that of the three politicians murdered in recent years in the UK (Cox, Amos, Widdecombe) two were women? It's not like women are 2/3 of all politicians.

May she rest in peace.

myopinionis · 16/07/2026 12:06

YABU, and verbose. Some left-wingers are machine-gunning themselves in the foot right now, and it's not helping anyone.

Ipsevenenabibas · 16/07/2026 12:02

AW did have many admirable qualities

At least we can agree on this @GwenPost . Have a good day now.

WiddleWaWa · 16/07/2026 11:59

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 11:37

Thanks, I did stop reading after a while because I didn't ask or care to hear your homophobic opinions to be honest. You're entirely entitled to be religious I just am not interested in your beliefs but I wouldn't vote against your right to have them or advocate for a cure for you. I don't believe in a God so I don't think there's any man in the sky who has a preference for me.😉

My homophobic opinion that you should have every right that a straight couple do including marriage and that I support your right to have a lesbian relationship and I do not judge that?
The fact that you didn't even read my post but called me out as a homophobe sums up everything that is wrong with the left right now.

OneQuirkyPanda · 16/07/2026 11:56

WiddleWaWa · 16/07/2026 11:48

TRIGGER WARNING GRAPHIC

But how, as a human, can you not be sad about the murder of a 78 year old woman in her own home because she was 'a divisive figure'?

That is what you said "not sure why it’s not acceptable for me or others to say they won’t grieve her or are not sad about her death?"

You don't have to grieve her. Grief is personal, it is an expression of love for someone. Nobody expects you to feel that.

But for you to think of a woman, almost 80 years old, realising there is a man in her home. A stranger and the fear she must have felt once she realised his malicious intentions knowing that she has no possible way, as an elderly woman, to protect herself from him. And then the physical pain she must have felt whilst he viciously beat her to death. Was it an instant death? Did she lay there for hours? Did he taunt her?

How, just how could you hear that and NOT be sad? It just seems absolutely heartless and inhumane to me.

Im not even saying you have to EXPRESS IT in writing. You don't have to comment about her at all in her death if you didn't like her, but do you really not feel any sadness for her death? I assume you are a woman?

Just as a woman, knowing one day you will be almost 80 and maybe alone at times.

Just because she was 'devisive'? That divisiveness in her opinions is enough for you to lose your sadness in the brutal murder of an elderly woman?

So if she was an LGBT campaigner you would allow yourself to feel the emotion of her death? But you close that off because of her opinions?

I find that incredibly strange.

If someone told me now that Heather Herbert, the man who rejoiced in Anns death, had been beaten to death in his own home for making that grotesque remarks I would be absolutely horrified and deeply, deeply saddened that his last moments were as such. I would be saddened that someone felt it was appropriate to murder him for those words and that his last moments on this earth were filled with fear. Nobody deserves to die that was for words alone.

Edited

To be quite blunt, I didn’t like her, I think her opinions were harmful and as a lesbian very offensive.

I think it’s awful what has happened to her, she didn’t deserve it, it shouldn’t have happened and whoever did it should be punished, but I am not sad she is dead, I will not mourn or grieve her as I found her deeply unpleasant.

I think it is my right to express that opinion, just as she expressed many opinions that I found deeply offensive. I certainly am not happy she was murdered, but I am not sad she is dead, and I think myself and others have every right to say that and we should not have to hide, censor or sugar coat our opinions because it is offensive to some people.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 11:53

But of course you’re deflecting from how crass, hateful and absurd your own posts are @Whisperingwaters

GwenPost · 16/07/2026 11:52

Ipsevenenabibas · 16/07/2026 10:29

For people like me, who admired her, admiration is rooted in her integrity, courage, and consistency. From this point of view, having a firm, unshifting moral foundation—even one rooted in ancient religious tradition—is a virtue. Refusal to conform to shifting cultural or political trends is admirable, in my opinion. The fact that you are asking me this question demonstrates a lack of critical thinking on your part. Hope this helps.

I think asking you the question shows an interest in understanding where you're coming from which is part of the critical thinking process.

So thanks for answering - it did help me understand your position.
We still disagree though.
While it's admirable to have a firm moral foundation I think if you're going to impose that on others by being part of the law making process then you should also consider your moral system from outside the religion that it is based on.

Gay people are 'broken' and science will cure them one day so I'm going to vote to deny them the same rights heterosexual people have isnt an admirable ethical position

AW did have many admirable qualities though

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 11:50

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 11:48

Wrong. The piece quotes JKR directly. That you’re cognitive bias makes you incapable of understanding the obvious logical conclusions from those quotes makes it impossible for you to comprehend her transphobia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitivebias

Edited

Yes, it quotes her saying perfectly reasonable things which don’t come near to your claim that she said “trans women are mentally ill sex predators”. Do try again.

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