EHRC code on single sex spaces comes into force on 5th August 2026

@Mum2boys01

You said: But here's the question people in this group seem to be ignoring do you honestly believe a man intent on assaulting a woman is going to stop because a sign on a toilet door says "Women"?

Well, that's tricky, isn't it, because you just said we can't tell if a man is trans-identified or not.

My question: So how can we say if THIS man (might look just that THAT man) is actually not going to assault women, if we can't tell he's actually a woman. That's why I thought it would be useful to tell the difference between the two men. Any ideas?

Could you also answer this question please, thanks.

It's also worth asking why the discomfort of one group is treated as automatically more important than the safety and dignity of another.

Another very good question. Why is it that the discomfort of trans-identified men is treated as automatically more important than the safety and dignity of women?

Would you care to answer that question, please? Thanks.

I’m not really all that interested why men feel the need to appropriate my sex, I just don’t accept it.

Why do you think these men’s feelings should be prioritised over those of the majority of women?

If you genuinely want to understand why trans women describe themselves as women, the best people to ask are trans women themselves. I’m not one, so I wouldn’t pretend to speak for their personal experience.
But this is also why listening matters. Many people form opinions about transgender people without ever having spoken to one or considered what their day-to-day experience is actually like.
The basis for recognising trans women as women comes from a combination of how gender identity is understood in psychology and medicine, the lived experiences of transgender people, and the way many societies have chosen to recognise and include them. People can debate how that should apply in specific situations, but dismissing someone’s identity as simply pretending avoids engaging with the reality of their lives.
Sometimes the most useful question is not just "what proof do you have?" but also "have I listened to the people whose lives I’m making claims about?"

It’s not only not shared on Mumsnet, but with the public as a whole. See all polls on this subject from 2018 on.

The idea that trans women are automatically "perfectly safe" in men's facilities is an assumption, not a fact. Many trans people report harassment, intimidation, and violence when they are forced into spaces that don't align with their gender.
But the bigger point is that this isn't about trans women "having to" use women's spaces for some hidden reason. It's about where people are able to live their everyday lives with dignity and safety. Most trans women are not trying to make a statement or invade anyone's space — they are trying to use a toilet, change clothes, or access services like everyone else.
It's also worth asking why the discomfort of one group is treated as automatically more important than the safety and dignity of another. The aim should be creating spaces where everyone is treated respectfully, not assuming one group is a threat simply because they are transgender. Anyway, this is how I feel, clearly that is not shared and thats ok. I hope everyone has a good evening.

This is why the Good Law Project lost their challenge to the interim guidance, because they made arguments of this calibre with a straight face in court and beclowned themselves. I’m sure the pp thinks the arguments are very clever. So did GLP.

It is a good question. In fact if you are saying people should believe that transwomen are women , it is the question that needs to be answered.
You assert very confidently that transwomen are women. So what is the basis for your assertion? Why should we believe you?

Thanks for responding!

No, I can't look inside someone's head and tell you whether they're genuinely transgender or lying. Neither can you.

Oh, that's unfortunate. So when you said "Being transgender isn't about believing women wear dresses or act a certain way; it's about a person's gender identity" did you mean that we just need to guess, or take it on faith, that the man coming into a female single-sex space is not a man, but is actually a woman? Even though they might look exacty like a real man? How do we know?

But here's the question people in this group seem to be ignoring do you honestly believe a man intent on assaulting a woman is going to stop because a sign on a toilet door says "Women"?

Well, that's tricky, isn't it, because you just said we can't tell if a man is trans-identified or not. So how can we say if THIS man (might look just that THAT man) is actually not going to assault women, if we can't tell he's actually a woman. That's why I thought it would be useful to tell the difference between the two men. Any ideas?

Men violating women’s boundaries should feel awkward, shouldn’t they?

Indeed 😡

Also, I notice that @Mum2boys01 ignored my suggestion that transwomen simply continue using the male facilities they've always used and where they are perfectly safe.

No, that's not good enough, is it? Transwomen have to use female spaces - for reasons better left unexplained...

@Mum2boys01 just bring your boys up to stay out of women's spaces, thanks. I guess they are why you are arguing (badly). Transwomen are men and always have been, always will be, and I do not want to share an intimate space with any male over the age of 8.

#NO.

As we know Seeth it's always N+1

however many women have been harmed, it's never enough

It's a very male response trying to narrow the discussion to potential violence in single sex spaces, and ignoring the privacy and dignity issues.

FFS why are TRAs so obsessed with toilets?

It's the thing that seems to enrage them the most, that poor transwomen might not get to pee in their preferred piece of ceramic, the one usually reserved for female people.

This is not about toilets.

It's about the legal, social and cultural existence of female people as having meaningfully different risks, needs, challenges and lived experiences to male.

Which you would realise if you stopped just thinking about what trans people want and thought about female people as people who exist and matter in our own right and not just as some sort of take-it-as-read NPC scenery for trans identities to be performed against.

Every single trans identified man who goes into women's spaces has already ignored the rules. He has put his wants over women's needs. 99% of sex offenders are male. 88% of those offended against are female. Many women have experienced sexual assault and violence at the hands of a man. And those women need spaces away from men to go to the toilet, get changed and use services such as health care. Your lack of understanding about why women need single sex spaces is shocking.

does excluding transgender women from public toilets stop predatory men? I haven't seen evidence that it does.

Okay. How many women need to be assaulted by transwomen before you accept that transwomen specifically present a risk?

It can't be zero, because there have already been such victims.

So why on earth let them in?

Burglars gonna burgle - so do you not bother to reduce the risk by shuttting your door?

Trans-identifying men are not the risk to women - male human beings are the risk to women. What do all trans.identifying men have in common with each other and with all men, which they do not have in common with ANY women?

Sorry, scratch that. Thanks for responding. I'll read your response.

We lock our doors because there's good evidence that physical barriers deter opportunistic burglars. But do you really think a man willing to commit sexual assault is stopped by a sign on a toilet door? If he's prepared to commit a serious crime, why would he suddenly become law-abiding when it comes to which toilet he's "allowed" to enter?
No one is saying abolish every sex-separated space. Prisons, intimate care, refuges and public toilets are all different situations and deserve different policies. You're lumping them together because it's easier than addressing the actual point: does excluding transgender women from public toilets stop predatory men? I haven't seen evidence that it does.

If transwomen are women why do they call themselves trans? A process or something, like a transition in their heads? So they are men then. Got it.

You're asking a question as though it's some kind of "gotcha", but it actually misses the point.
No, I can't look inside someone's head and tell you whether they're genuinely transgender or lying. Neither can you. But here's the question people in this group seem to be ignoring do you honestly believe a man intent on assaulting a woman is going to stop because a sign on a toilet door says "Women"?
If a man is prepared to commit a violent crime, he's already prepared to ignore the rules. So your entire argument rests on the idea that predatory men respect toilet policies but would draw the line at pretending to be transgender. That simply doesn't make sense.
If your concern is dangerous men, then focus on dangerous men. A determined predator isn't stopped by a door sign, and treating every transgender woman as a potential predator doesn't solve the problem you're claiming to address.

Brilliant! Let's just not bother then eh?

let's make every single space mixed sex and open to everyone then

i mean if men are just going to go around attacking women anyway why bother? No more single sex prisons - let's just lock the women and men up together, single sex intimate care for won't with dementia? Why bother? I mean if it's all do impossible to stop men let's not even try

it's the same reason I always leave all my doors and windows wide open when I go out - I mean it's not like we can stop burglaries is it

I suspect Burnham might deal with this by changing the law - he is quite pro trans. I hope I'm wrong.