Trying to understand everyday views on sex and gender discussions

But what 'expression' are you talking about?

What do you see as problematic about GC posters 'expression' that would make them fundamentalist?

And once again, do you genuinely think that the GC side has anything equivalent to this?

https://terfisaslur.com/

Of course. It isnt about what you believe, it's about your expression and adherence to that belief, even if confronted with evidence to the contrary.

What you'll see seemingly intelligent people do is reject anything that contradicts them as fake new but easily accept evidence of a similar quality that supports their view.

I need to leave for work now so wont reply for a while.

But that's what I'm asking. Can 'fundamentalist' be applied to someone with perfectly scientific views that wants to uphold women's rights?

I'm not trying to change your opinion, but quite aside from this specific exchange with you, in a more general sense, I would absolutely love to understand what anyone thinks is the GC equivalent of this that makes it 'both sides'

https://terfisaslur.com/

It is a genuine question

Google what a fundamentalist is.

i don't even understand what that might mean.

Is it 'fundamentalist' to believe that humans can't change sex? To believe that women have sex based rights that should be upheld?

Yes, it is. I gave my opinion. You certainly won't change it by repeatedly tagging me in comments.

I shared my opinion on fundies on both sides. Do you identify as a fundamentalist on this issue?

You threw out the insults, so no I don't think it's appropriate to just tell us all to 'move on'

Pretty unfair of you to accuse people of being unhinged but not to be prepared to back that up in any way

For another arguing 'both sides' I'd love to know what they think is the GC equivalent of this

https://terfisaslur.com/

You dont have any right to any explanations from me.

I've detailed enough in previous posts.

I've shared my views, as asked by the OP. I don't think their purpose was to try and persuade each other to change our minds so much as collect a range of views from a range of members.

Let go, and move on.

If you are calling people unhinged for expressing perfectly legal and scientifically sound views, I think we have the right to further explanation.

Can you give us examples of how these people 'express themselves'

Becayse this all sounds like the tedious tone policing that we all have plenty of experience.

If you think the aim is right, why pick holes on expression and try to silence women that way?

Funny enough, I saw that many of the very few female prisoners who have been quited as having an issue with trans women inmates in women's prisons are fine with those who have had surgery. So it isnt their maleness and that male propensity for violence, they just don't want cocks around.

The other weird thing is that many of the quotes were written in a weird dialect seemingly to imitate the women who spoke the words.

I don't think the aim is unhinged, I think some of the people most vocal on this topic on any side often express themselves in ways that seem.unhinged due to their inability to accept new information.

Anyway, we were asked for our views, I shared mine. Part of what makes one seem unhinged is when one interrogates people about their opinions to no purpose other than trying to get them to agree with you. We are allowed to think differently and draw different conclusions. It doesnt make either of us evil or stupid. Accept that I have my view and move on.

Look how many people on this thread have made the distinction between those male people with a penis and without.

I don't personally draw a distinction, but I think when talking majority views a penis makes the answer obvious and immediate for the majority. When opinion polls spell out clearly that they're being asked about a male person with a penis, a large majority say no to TW in women's changing rooms.

People who haven't thought the issues through are less sure about men without penises. They think of castrating animals to make them less aggressive, and that what flashers want to show off is their dicks. They think that a man who goes to those lengths must be sincere in some way. And for men there's the cringe factor. They don't want to even think about having that done so anyone who has is immediately in the "other" category for them.

Here’s my view.
There are 2 sexes male and female.
Sometimes on the extremely rare occasion a baby is born without clearly defined sexual organs so a decision had to be made as to whether her child will be defined as male on female. This decision is based on professional, medical opinion as to which of the sex organs appears most dominant. This is extremely rare. So rare that it affects virtually nobody.
Gener is a man made construct. It is not based on biological fact. Indeed it’s just a feeling, an opinion. Rather like expressing the opinion that red is a better colour than blue. Or that Shakira is a better singer than Adele.
For centuries we have had people try and force everyone into gender electric roles.
For example you are female so when you become an adult these are your choices of career. I clearly remember this at school. The teacher showing the class pictures of workers in specific roles and asking us all individually what we would like to do when we grew up.
Now, the choices we were show were based 100% on our gender. Even as a young child I found it odd and it didn’t match with who I was.
I am female but felt it wrong that my choices were: nurse, hairdresser or teacher.
The boys choices were; fireman, policeman or astronaught.
This is his the problem started. Trying to force people into tight boxes.

Colour me shocked that the OP never returned

@Lexibletheflexible can you explains what you think is 'unhinged' about the women fighting for their legal rights to single sex spaces and services?

Everyday women who campaign to protect the provisions that were/should have been there for their needs have always been told we were the issue - we are ‘unhinged’, ‘hysterical’, ‘unkind’, ‘immoderate’. Whatever.

One could say that expecting society to act as if they believed that people can change sex and that sex is not important for single sex provisions fits the ‘unhinged’ description.

The ‘both sides’ shaming tactic is not new either. I believe Starmer joined in saying that at one time, what has he done about fully supporting female people’s needs in this issue to get resolution and predictability?

"I’m interested in what exists in the middle. What do normal, everyday, people believe? What is the most “common” view on trans issues? Outside of my own echo chamber, where does the line lie?"

I think it is possible that some people's internal feelings around their sex and gender are more accurate than what their anatomy dictates. I think it is pretty rare though. Like just to put a number on it, I'd reckon at it being around 1-2% of people who think they are trans are "in the wrong body" so to speak.

I think the issue itself brings out the fundamentalists on both sides. That is interesting to watch as it reflects the type of online incel-like radicalism that comes from spending too much time on the Internet. Whenever you speak to fundies on either side, it all feels a bit intense and unhinged. All a bit Kathy Bates in Misery. Or worse Kathy Bates in Water Boy.

Of course, they can then claim victim status that they have had to undertake such extreme measures to access female single sex provisions too. This is an extra layer of emotional manipulation and has worked to some success.

Look how many people on this thread have made the distinction between those male people with a penis and without.

Will we ever get an answer of what is the difference between a male person with a penis and one without, when harm and abuse to female people from male people do not require a penis for that harm and abuse to happen?

Maybe the same type of misogynist who tells women that our expectation that male people can self regulate and not access female single sex provisions is us supporting the medicalising of transpeople. By ‘medicalising’ read undergo extreme body modification.

Because apparently, male people should not be expected to make choices that allow female people to have the provisions we need, they instead will find a way to ignore the needs of female people and bypass consents. By changing their appearance as if that makes their personal choices male people acceptable.