Supporting women in prison.

Exactly. The policy change in England under the last government was in large part due to the lobbying of the brilliant Dr Kate Coleman and her organisation Keep Prisons Single Sex.

Yep I was side eyeing the op from the start. Perhaps people could get on with doing the things they feel are more important, rather than lecturing women on MN about their priorities?

I look forward you coming back and apologising when that trans identified male 'Alexandra' Stewart is found guilty of sexually assaulting a woman in a women's prison then. 99% of sex offenders are male. Even if every woman prisoner voted to include male prisoners in the female estate, it still wouldn't be the right thing to do.

Men pretending to be women and accessing women's spaces is my area of concern. It affects women in many different areas of life. It has affected me personally. I can campaign on whatever I like.

I'm seeing the "I don't understand what you're trying to say" ruse being used on other threads on the board.

In real life, I've seen it being used by men who don't want to admit to losing an argument to a woman or women.

What exactly do you claim "doesn't happen"? These have all been reported in the press:

• women being compelled to share cells and showers with men claiming to be women
• women prisoners being punished for misgendering
• women prisoners being subjected to voyeurism & indecent exposure by male inmates
• women prisoners (and women prison staff) being sexually assaulted by male prisoners incarcerated in women's prisons.

• That never happens
• It does happen but not a lot - this is a fuss about nothing
• It happens all the time and most women are not bothered about it - only bigots
• It is a good thing and we should encourage more of it (because it makes men happy).

It is surprising that some PP claim that women prisoners are not bothered about men being incarcerated with them when male prisoners in the men's estate have expressed concern and disgust that violent sex offenders and paedophiles get "Prison Onset Dysphoria" in order to avoid being placed on the Sex Offender Programme and some are then moved into women's prisons.

@dylexicdementor11 This is the "Feminism Sex & Gender Discussions Board, by the way, which is why there is a focus on the impact on women prisoners of men being incarcerated with them. There is a "Feminism Chat" Board for threads like this one which are NOT about "Sex & Gender".

Women face punishment for using wrong pronouns
https://insidetime.org/newsround/women-face-punishment-for-using-wrong-pronouns/

‘Trans-imposters’
https://insidetime.org/mailbag/trans-imposters/

Are they stupid?
https://insidetime.org/mailbag/are-they-stupid/

‘Some trans prisoners are faking it’, MoJ study finds
https://insidetime.org/newsround/some-trans-prisoners-are-faking-it-moj-study-finds/

(ps. I can't help noticing that you and the OP not only are of one mind but also have such similar User Names, lexically and semantically. What are the chances!)

@dylexicdementor11 if you’re bored, why don’t you go on all the threads on MN and tell women they’re too concerned with the wrong thing?

Not OP's first rodeo on the 'this is really not the main issue in this particular area why aren't you talking about - ooo look a squirrel' horse either.

I'm confused by the 'problem is minuscule' argument.

It rather reminds me of the argument about meningitis or polio not being a problem and therefore we shouldn't vaccinate our kids.

Well yes, the reason (men in woman's prisons) is a 'small' problem is because of the hard work of campaign groups (some who met here!) who have raised awareness and litigated on this very issue and as a result there are likely a fraction of the transwomen in female prisons as there would be otherwise. The fragrant Isla of purple leggings fame, being just one.

The very fact that there are still ANY in woman's prisons means there is still some kind of loop hole or undermining of the law. While that is still the case, women's prisons and the women in them are still at risk.

But she did, the opening of this thread didn’t mention trans at all

Not sure if its the same poster or another who had been in prison and explained that male screws are a far bigger problem.

Female staffing seems a sensible place to start otherwise every female prisoner is effectively sharing a cell with a man. Ones with keys.

Also the slightly patronising tone as though Women in Prison and other groups concerned with women who are incarcerated have never been mentioned on FWR before!

Well I'm shocked, shocked I tell you that this is a wafer thinly disguised scolding thread about what women should or should not devote time too 🙄

I'm saying that if prisoners were ever your concern, you'd listen to them abiut their concerns and address those. They wouldn't only interest you because you can shoehorn in your own hyper-interest in trans women by using female prisoners.

I think we should. Current femsle prisoners do not. Their views trump mine

Instead of arguing on here, take proper action and apply to join the IMB.
I've been doing it for years, but recently had to resign due to my health problems.
https://imb.org.uk/

So should we ban male POs from women's prisons or shouldn't we? I'm confused about what your point is?

That point is reasonable.

Is there a thread somewhere about this? Or are you suggesting that because this is one area of concern people shouldn't be focused on another?

Sounds very like whataboutery to me.

That's for the government to do. People who want to help actual prisoners rather than play politics listen to what their concerns are. Some were deeply concerned about the idea of staff being all female because just as many had suffered abuse and abandonment from female caregivers. Many of those same people experienced sexual abuse from men at the same time or as a direct result of the neglect and abuse from female caregivers.

They don't view the issue through a gendered lens. They are more inclined to think that anyone who would want power over people who have had their rights stripped away are a bit fucked up anyway.

So they won't see it as men being the issue so much so as anyone who gains that power will misuse it and reducing the workforce by removing all men (who often make up most of the workforce in a prison) will reduce their chances of meeting the angels that were helpful to them and treated them with dignity.

Who is 'they?'

And how do you know they were not always concerned with issues affecting female prisoners?

I ended your brief post at something of a loss.

I disagree. Prison is not a democracy. While prisoners should be asked their opinions we would have to look at the stats for assault by male staff before making a decision. Individual experiences can't over-ride safeguarding of the female prison population as a whole.

Female prisoners don't support that move as lots of them have had great or at least neutral experiences with some male POs. I think it would be a great move, alas, the masses concerned do not agree. Therefore those of us who are no longer in prison or have never been in have to listen to what they say.