Is advocating the ridicule and scaring of trans-identifying children deeply concerning?

No body is suggesting it does. 'Woman' & 'man' are simply sociological verbal shortcuts for identifying with masculinity & femininity.

You do realise ridiculing only entrenches the need to 'pass' right? Oh wait……

Gillick competence was developed to permit intellectually and emotionally capable teenage girls to access easily reversible birth control without their parents’ knowledge. There are serious moral and legal doubts on whether this should also apply to permanent and untested treatments.

The case(s) that motivated Gillick are irrelevant to whether an individual minor can be considered legally competent or not.

There are serious moral and legal doubts on whether this should also apply to permanent and untested treatments.

The Cass systemic review determined PB trials should go ahead. Other countries that conducted systematic reviews also have not out lawed gender affirming care to minors. At minimum they have restricted it to patients who are more likely to benefit long term.

The evidence is mounting across the world to the contrary.

This will become outlawed eventually.

There is no good reasoning to make a child’s body ill on the basis of fantasy/ a lie and the whims and fantasies of adults.

lets just remind ourselves that a fetish site has sexualised fantasy stories of doctors castrating minors and injecting them with PBs in order to keep their bodies as child like as possible.

In fact, one whistleblower clinician at the Tavistock had firm reason to believer that keeping a child pre pubescent for the adult’s enjoyment was the main aim for referral and treatment.

One judge’s judgment can be very turned by another when scientific and safeguarding evidence is presented.

fws was based on both scientific and safeguarding evidence.

Yep. That did become clear!

This is back again to the idea that medical treatment needs to do the least harm.

Contraception vs. pregnancy - no-brainer - of course contraception is safer than pregnancy.

HRT vs. menopause - more nuanced, lots of things to balance, answer is different for each woman.

PBs vs Puberty - only justified by saying that people will kill themselves if they don't have them. That's how damaging PBs are, that the only way they can be justified is by comparing them to death. That alone should be a warning sign.

(and yes, they can also be used for precocious puberty - but by my understanding that rarely happens these days, exactly because the PBs themselves are so dangerous, so if they can find any other way to deal with the precocious puberty, they do)

Gillick competence was developed to permit intellectually and emotionally capable teenage girls to access easily reversible birth control without their parents’ knowledge. There are serious moral and legal doubts on whether this should also apply to permanent and untested treatments.

I don’t think mockery would help. @Seethlaw has absolutely hit the nail on the head. This is a man advocating violence.

And, as an aside, isn’t it surprising that on this thread we have several chiding ploppers giving it their all. On the now 7 threads on the Tempest Employment Tribunal where trans identifying men ruthlessly bullied a civil service network expressing their entirely legal views courteously they are nowhere to be seen (not complaining about that).

Bailey. Women went through all of this 75 years ago - we went through the ridicule and abuse so that we could wear trousers.

Men can do the same if they want to wear dresses. In plenty of cultures, men wear these kinds of garment - the number of tubes your legs go down isn't something innate to humanity, it's cultural, and can be changed - just as women did.

And yes, I'm going to continue to ridicule perverts and fetishists until they keep their perversions and fetishes in private. There is a world of difference between a man who's put together a fashion he enjoys which happens to be more feminine (I did grow up in the 80s, so this I know) vs. a man putting on a stereotyped imitation of the womanhood that turns him on.

I don’t consider the ‘man was clear’ at all. I think you should heed your own advice.

Yes, that tweet is horrible.

It's always wrong to ridicule a child or young person. I do find the idea of a man thinking he can become a woman or vice versa ridiculous - but if your child comes to you with thoughts like this then mockery is playing into the hands of the online spaces where they are told that their parents are nasty bigots who hate them. It can be devastating at that age, especially if they were worried about telling you.

Hold the line firmly - changing sex is impossible, but you can have any interests, personality, clothes, hairstyle etc as the sex that you are. But do it with compassion because these feelings, however absurd, are real to the young person and the last thing you want is to drive them away. Explore the issue from a realist perspective instead of trying to scare them and shut down discussion.

I remember my children (and their friends) before they went through puberty and there is no way I would want them to have to face adult life without having undergone the brain maturation process that puberty brings alongside the maturation of the rest of the body. It's fucking insane to think any child would be better of avoiding puberty. There must be better ways to deal with body dysphoria than arresting kids in a pre-pubescent state.

I do think that first paragraph is appallingly worded and open to misinterpretation.

I reckon that someone will ask him to clarify today.

There's plenty wrong because puberty isn't a neutral phenomena that can be wound back in adulthood that has consequences on a person's mental health. You are assuming just 'wishing away' personal discomfort is piece of cake. Whilst of course accepting one's own lot is always an easier path that doesn't mean its always doable. If it were you would have a lot more satisfied people in the general population. Trans people are no different.

Social & familial rejection are widely accepted known suicidality risk factors for everyone so in terms of 'passing' this has implications on mental health. And to suggest that particularly trans women who express feminine inclinations would be more socially accepted sans medical intervention is ludicrous. This forum alone takes great pleasure in mocking such individuals as deluded freaks, fetishists & perverts. The irony of people here of all places suggesting trans people should just be themselves as their own gender is breathtaking.

@Helleofabore

I understand what you mean, and yes he does make some good points further in the tweet, but I cannot see that first paragraph as anything but an appeal to emotional and psychological violence - against children! I won't lie: my first reaction was, "Oh, a man calling for violence, how original."

Ridicule and instillation of fear should never be the first reactions to a difficult situation with a child. They have no educational value. They only serve to break the child's will and spirit, not to mention their trust in this particular adult, if not adults as a rule.

Yes, I agree that "therapy should have greater focus on honesty about outcomes for those children", absolutely! But ridicule and fear are not necessary in this process.

Don't be so blinded by your beliefs that you support abusers. Be better than that. Sometimes you got to let that bias go and see something for what it is. The man was clear in what he is saying. If you agree that children should be treated that way, just say it. Don't tey and pretend he isnt saying that but you agree with what he's saying.

Has he?

I read the first paragraph as being a call to react that way to an ideology rather than calling for children to be treated that way.

I then read the rest of the tweet as describing treating children with honesty about identities and expectations. I don’t read any call for abusing children in the remaining text unless you consider being honest about their future outcomes as being abusive.

There's certainly a pattern with this kind of threads, even when they get started.

i assume this was posted so that Bails could turn up and say it's fine to offer children medical. 'Treatment' that will alter their body and fertility permanently because trans and therefore all normal rules around safeguarding and to no harm don't apply

it's all so embarrassingly obvious

Ho does "innate inclination" change physical sex?

I agree but the problem lies in excluding all other possibilities that influence identity formation including innate inclinations that experts in the field acknowledge.

Lol.no he's calling for emotionally abusing your children. Don't cover for him.

Not according to the highest appeals court in the UK that armchair pontificating isn't qualified as.

Are they really conforming to cultural pressures or more expressing internal inclinations or both? You're assuming feminine & masculine inclinations are only learned rather than a complex interplay of biology, evolutionary psychology, and social conditioning.

And aligning one's body to mind isn't exclusive to trans people. Cis people routinely engage in gendered body modification en masse via exercise & medical interventions. Are you going to suggest that they too are hapless victims of social pressures & should cease & desist?

The idea that parents & people in medical authority are "telling" children to choose a life of objective social & medical struggle is preposterous because there simply are zero incentives to do so. It's just another version of 'gay groomer' mentality we’ve seen many times before that authoritarian conformers attempt to impose. In fact the MRA are notorious for asserting feminism is all about 'man envy' & the ideological grooming/contagion of mindless emotionally led infantile brained women. The parallels to gender critical are astonishing.

There is another way. One which doesn't seek to erase homosexuality, constrain autism or paper over experience of abuse: Genuine acceptance of not conforming to gender stereotypes. And psychological support if needed.

So no more mocking of 'men in dresses' so long as they don't call themselves 'women'? Save the hypocrisy.

And someone referenced boomer. Not relevant at all.

Yeah. I doubt there are many "boomers" about that have teenage kids.

The point is adults & minors can govern their own thoughts, values, and beliefs. People can choose to reframe a situation, adopt a different mindset, or decide what holds meaning for them.

Well then, what's the problem with helping trans kids reframe the situation from "I'll die if I don't get socially transitioned right now!" to "I can be happy in my own sex" ? What's wrong with helping them adopt the mindset that "I owe it to myself to wait until I'm an adult to make adult decisions" ?