Why do some feminists oppose misogyny but support gender ideology?

Oh for goodness sake, stop sucking up and repeating twitter/bluesky talking points, false premises and the usual tropes.

Women have been meeting and organising for almost 10 years now; first of all in secret or in other's homes. This was when discussion was literally not an option anywhwere else but here, pretty much. The Labour party was still chanting " No Debate" and "TWAW", and seeking to eject long time members and trade union activists. Women were disciplined at work; banned from twitter; banned from many forums; castigated; screamed at; had our meeetings attacked or disrupted.

Journalists writing for Left wing publications were cast out; women who had been identifying themselves with the Left for decades. It took brave people to speak out; and then finally a few brave women managed to have pieces published in The Times or in 'Unherd' becaue The Guardian would not publish them. Court cases were brought, court cases were won, and women were increasingly being vindicated......

You assertions and insinuations are ill-informed and ignorant of all of this.

If you want to see what a truly grassroots movement can achieve in a relatively short period of time...look no further than all of the above.

Men who identify as women have already come for us.

This is all the left have it seems. 'Oh look at Orange man, he's worse' 🙄

As a woman, I'll be fighting for ALL my rights thanks. Not just the ones the lefty bros deign I'm allowed.

Throughout history you will find "evil" people who have done "good" things. And "good" people who have done "bad" things.

TRAs have managed to attach themselves to a good cause. And wanfing people to be accepted for who they are is not a bad thing in itself. But that doesnt give them the right to trample over others.

Many "GCs" as you dismissively calk us are horrified by the actions of Trump. We know he is just acting for himself and other straight white men. He is not a friend to women.

The 'progressive' left HAS ALREADY COME FOR WOMEN AND CHILDREN. Hypotheticals about what may happen in the future (in the UK, Trump is not our President) have to be weighed against the damage that batshit policies from the left have already wreaked and are continuing to wreak on individual women, on women as a sex class and on vulnerable children. Many women know that no political faction has our best interests at heart; 'the other guy will be even worse than us' is something we hear from all sides.

Yes absolutely. They have very little left. Especially after the strength of FWS.

You seem to struggle with the idea of women having our own opinions.

I want to keep men out of my words and spaces not because of Donald Trump or other cases that Keira Bells lawyer has worked on, it’s because I don’t want men in my words and spaces.

Your desperate attempt to discredit our views by association is just that, desperate but thanks for trying. It just illustrates how little you have left. Reality and truth are being strongly reasserted by women.

Are you sure you want to go there? Because women have the receipts about the behaviour, convictions and dodgy interests of an awful lot of influential transactivists. While many of them are in prison, there are still a lot out in the wild we can talk about.

In what way do you think a belief that people can change sex helps women?

What else are Trump and his merry men working to eliminate? Ask yourself that question. Look at who are the allies of the gender critical movement. Look at the conference Sex Matters attended recently. Look at the lawyer who supported Keira Bell role back gillick competency and wonder what his motives were.

The GC movement are useful idiots. When they're done with trans people they'll come for the rest of you.

In which case, I have used the word "oppression" incorrectly.
I meant disadvantaged due to prejudice, bullying and discrimination. (And no, being legitimately excluded due to your sex doesn't count).

I have heard several (western) Muslim women talk approvingly of how refusing your spouse sexually is not permitted in Islam.

One thing I'll pull you up on a little bit - oppression requires extraction of labour. How are men 'oppressed' (and no, I don't count 'having to explain why they're dressed as they are and that's why they should be in the ladies' as labour being extracted from someone).

Women were oppressed through their biology - being the one to bear children, being smaller and more vulnerable and so more easily forced into performing actual labour whether they wanted to or not.

I think its probably always been like that. Most people buy their views as a job lot. Certainly at Uni, I held views I could not have really justified if pressed, but somehow felt they were the views I should have. (in my 50s now). But gradually I was exposed to things as I grew up that made me question my assumptions and prejudices. And I certainly have friends who have always paid the Guardian to tell them what to think and still do. So I don't think today's young are unusual in that, though the whole ' being cancelled' thing has probably made it worse in terms of lacking the space and security to be able to question the views you and others hold. And of course social media means people are only fed views that they agree with, and may not even realise this is happening to them, which accelerates, yet normalises, extreme positions. I doubt the extreme gender ideology we have now could have taken hold without social media. Its still a patently ridiculous idea to anyone outside the gender bubble. Most people, I find, who say they support it ( other than trans activists) don't even understand what it claims or means in practice. Once they find out, they don't agree with it.

Some support trans people because they are always on the side of the downtrodden/oppressed and don't necessarily think deeply about how they relate to each other.

Some probably base their opinions on their own experiences. I have one trans colleague who is a lovely person. I can absolutely see that their gender struggles are real and personal.

I consider myself a feminist and GC, in that I believe that sex is binary and fact-based. I don't believe in gender as some form of innate feature which is independent of their sex.
A lot of what people describe as gender, is to me just stereotypes and social norms. However, I can accept that other people have different beliefs. I don't think that they are wrong, just that they are different to mine as long as they don't expect me to live by their values. In the same sense I can respect other people's religious beliefs without sharing them myself.
This is for me personally the crux of my GC beliefs - I don't care if you believe you are a woman, or want to adopt the social norms associated with that. I care if I am compelled to treat it as a fact, rather than a belief, and pretend that it's my belief too.
As a feminist, I believe that women throughout cultures and history have been and continue to be oppressed. Much of this oppression is based on our biology, so cannot be relevant to transwomen. I do agree that transwomen suffer discrimination and oppression, but although there is some overlap, it is different oppression.

That's a fine plan.

I was just off listening to my bird song app - I had chiff chaffs and greenfinches in my garden!! Much more rewarding!

On women's rights being a newfangled notion but the young not-really-feminists don't realise this: I have found that asking them why they think Roe v Wade happened, and when (it was 1973 so before most of them were born but probably not before their mothers were) , and then pointing out that Trump and his merry men are working to reverse that state by state so that abortion becomes illegal in the USA as a whole, sometimes does get through.

It's big enough for them to have to accept that it is real.

Why on earth does anyone waste pixels on Baileyonice any more? Have we no paint that needs to be invigilated to make sure it dries right?

These uninformed girls so airily waving away their rights might also find it surprising to remember at until 1991 it was legal to rape your wife. Consent to sex was presumed on marriage.

It might also be helpful to understand how many countries still allow marital rape. It is most widespread in African and Middle Eastern countries, particularly under Sharia law.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape_laws_by_country

Women were first allowed to compete in the ski jump in the Olympics in 2014.

I too was going to mention the Boston marathon about this point.

So agree. I was cancelled in another place yesterday for disagreeing that Greece was not part of Western Europe - the idea seemed to be that Greece is middle eastern with Turkish* etc connections - and that white people had stolen Greek mythology. I was somewhat flummoxed by this view but doubted it merited cancellation. Mind the canceller was an American. I was confused by their argument and wanted to understand their reasoning, Plato et al being part of the Western cannon. I am equally confused by feminists who are handmaidens but I would never block - discussion is always better?
*Greece fought a war for independance from the Ottoman Empire during the nineteenth century and the problem of a divided Cyprus is with us still, half belonging to Greece and half to Turkey (though Erdogan seems to be sucking up to Greece in saying the firman allowing the removal of the Acropolis marbles - which were about to become hard core - cannot be found).

So true. Katherine Switzer became the first woman to officially run the Boston Marathon in 1967. She literally had to fight to stay in the race and was attacked by officials. She was booed along the way. All because she wanted to run. Seems inconceivable now.

Yes. This whole colonisation and attempted takeover of what it means to be a girl, a woman, a female, is so unbelievable and wrong. When I wrote 'women's bodies', I was aware that that fact/concept is under attack and people are being made to doublethink.

I also hoped my comment might be helpful to other women reading here. I know for sure that any advice following pregnancy or around menopause can be of no personal relevance for any man/male, whatever they may think about themselves and whether they are posting or disrupting on here or not.