Why do some feminists oppose misogyny but support gender ideology?

Not every woman will feel the effects immediately but they are still there. They go about their daily lives and then they turn up to the gym and there’s a naked man in the changing room or a male nurse being creepy when they have specifically requested no male nurses due to rape trauma, then the private hospital refuses their life saving surgery. And as I said, some of the brainwashed just don’t have the cognitive function to understand at the moment.

So something that might happen very rarely in the far off future should be the centrepiece of modern feminism. No wonder young women disavow feminism in droves because of its irrelevance. As I said, who needs the patriarchy when GC ideologues will do their dirty work for them.

As has already been repeated upthread, GC's effectively silence issues that do impact women at scale.
Which issues for women are improved by including men in our spaces and definitions?

Depends on the spaces. I take a more nuanced view where exceptions like sport, hospitals, refuges & prisons are legitimately justified. However I believe bathroom exclusion only imposes policing of women's bodies.

In terms of definitions there's this thing called a 'prefix' like 'trans' that points to distinctions that only a moron or wilful misunderstanding denies exists.

I’m ‘wokey’ for listening to transpeople? I thought that’s what trans activists are always telling us to do.

That doesn't mean people without 'lived experience don't get an opinion 'Lived experience' works in terms of inclusion. They get a voice that they never had before that should be taken into consideration but not as final authority. Are you seriously suggesting only people with lived experience should adjudicate societal standards?

Are you struggling with the fact that a transpersons view agrees with my reasoning? So you feel at absolute liberty to dismiss Seethlaws lived experience out of hand and that’s ’disagreeing’ but I am ‘weaponising’ those views because I agree? You are consistently hypocritical, I’ll give you that.

Comprehension isn't your strong suit is it? Seeth's opinion isn't the issue here, its that you are attempting to elevate their authority on this issue because their 'lived experience' happens to agree with yours. Of course 'lived experience' can take a flying leap when it doesn't in your world.

It’s not mocking to state facts btw.

But your personal subjective opinion isn't a fact.

Some men identify as women.
Some handmaidens identify as feminists.

I’m not sure what you want from us here. You are here telling us off for using the ‘wrong’ words but have not explained exactly which ones and why you think they are wrong.

Now you are complaining that we don’t talk about anything else but not putting forward any other issues you are concerned with. Why don’t you have a think about what you are interested in and start your own thread?

Lordy, I'm not on trial. There's more than one topic for feminists to address and a lot of the time only this topic comes up

Again, definitions rely on social usage. Cambridge dic:

female
adjective
uk
/ˈfiː.meɪl/ us
/ˈfiː.meɪl/
female adjective (GENDER)
Add to word list
belonging or relating to women or girls:
She was voted the best female vocalist.
She was the school's first trans female athlete.

From Mem Web

sex
1 of 2
noun
ˈseks

Synonyms of sex
Simple DefinitionA Simple Definition is available from our Learner's Dictionary to help you understand the meaning faster.
1
a
: either of the two major forms of individuals that occur in many species and that are distinguished respectively as female or male especially on the basis of their reproductive organs and structures

b
: the sum of the structural, functional, and sometimes behavioral characteristics of organisms that distinguish males and females

Again, definitions rely on social usage. Cambridge dic:

female
adjective
uk
/ˈfiː.meɪl/ us
/ˈfiː.meɪl/
female adjective (GENDER)
Add to word list
belonging or relating to women or girls:
She was voted the best female vocalist.
She was the school's first trans female athlete.

From Mem Web

sex
1 of 2
noun
ˈseks

Synonyms of sex
Simple DefinitionA Simple Definition is available from our Learner's Dictionary to help you understand the meaning faster.
1
a
: either of the two major forms of individuals that occur in many species and that are distinguished respectively as female or male especially on the basis of their reproductive organs and structures

b
: the sum of the structural, functional, and sometimes behavioral characteristics of organisms that distinguish males and females

We have defined the word woman and we can talk about other areas of inequality

Lordy, I'm not on trial. There's more than one topic for feminists to address and a lot of the time only this topic comes up

'Mate' that's a blokey word

Trans women are a sub set women via behavioural associations. Cis women are a subset of women via reproductive associations.

Can't be, seeing as women are adult female human beings, which has everything to do with "reproductive associations" and nothing at all to do with "behavioural associations".

@Denim4ever : this is what we are talking about. You say that the word "woman" has been defined and it's time to move on. But as you can see up here, there are still many who argue that "woman" means something other than "woman".

Yes, but you are assuming that's what I'm talking about

So you’re just here as the tone police?

Dear me, I'm not 'confused' at all. A point of view put across with confidence and not in an inflammatory way is always better put.

Look mate. Women are facing death threats, rape threats and violence for saying no to men. A TRA on here advocated for women to be raped with a splintery rolling pin. The only crime was saying no to men. And you want us to be civil???? CIVIL???

Well I don't support any 'feminist' who says that men can become women and appropriate stuff set aside for women.

Sure. But they are not feminists.

How so? How are people advocating for the loss of women’s rights feminists?

A situation where we are discussing other topics. Workplace inequalities, how women are mostly still not equals in terms of childcare issues/role in family life/undervalued.

There kind of threads really irk because they highlight a complete lack of empathy within society.

I don't agree with gender ideology but I can fully comprehend their point of view. They believe that transwomen are women trapped in the wrong body. They believe that these women are especially vulnerable because not only are they women suffering the way us women do but they also have the added inconvenience of being born into a man's body and therefore rejected by a large portion of society.

Do you really not understand their point of view? Or do you just not agree?

They think they are, because they have not really faced that they are in conflict with the core principle of centering women. I'm sure there are many reasons for this denial, on both a group and an individual level.

There was someone called Oxford Feminist on here a few weeks ago, who we asked to give us an explanation of her men-inclusive feminism. She never got back to us. Perhaps you would like to have a try, though I must confess I find it unlikely that you will and am planning on going to bed in 10 mins.

For what it's worth, I felt much more radicalised before, when I had to reject as a block everything that wasn't "TWAW and TMAM, period!" Now I'm not asked to believe anything at all, just to recognise biological reality, which is much less radical; one could even say it's dreadfully mundane 😛

In a literal sense, the Latin prefix "trans" means "across," "beyond," or "on the other side of". It is frequently used as the direct opposite of the prefix "cis" which means "on the same side as".

The inference is across their natal sex.

Trans women are a sub set women via behavioural associations. Cis women are a subset of women via reproductive associations.

I don't know about that. TRAs got very far indeed with arguments such as "A good TERF is a dead TERF", "Punch a TERF", and so on. Instilling fear in people who would disagree with you is a very effective method indeed.

Not saying that GC people should do the same, not at all, just that thoroughly indecent arguments can also be helpful to a cause.

@Baileyonice

In terms of definitions there's this thing called a 'prefix' like 'trans that points to distinctions that only a moron or wilful misunderstanding denies exists.

"Trans" literally means "across", though: so trans women are across women, aka men.

White women are a subset of women. Abled women are a subset of women. But trans women are a subset of men, not women; that's what the trans is there to indicate.