Why do some feminists oppose misogyny but support gender ideology?

Women who centre men in their feminism might call themselves feminists but they’d be wrong.

The clue is in the name.

Like the men that call themselves women - it doesn’t make it correct. Or would you want us to abandon fixed meanings of words altogether?

I usually see it as an attempt to regain a modicum of control in a situation that completely escapes you.

Can't argue what people are discussing? => Argue how they are discussing it instead.

Can't stop being abused by a group stronger than you? => Abuse individuals who are weaker than you.

That way, you end controlling some aspect of the situation, and thus not feeling completely powerless.

Are we being censured again for discussing the topic that we were foisted on because some people didn’t think that the topic belonged in Feminism and campaigned to have this board established?

Plus ca change.

That is literally just your opinion. Other opinions and definitions of feminism are available.

In my experience, that's it, yes, at least at first: you have to believe that you believe, because that's the Right Thing To Do.

And it's very effective: after a while, you do come to honestly believe, except in the more egregious cases. It becomes the baseline, the default. And when you catch yourself not believing, for a specific individual or in some specific circumstance, you blame yourself for thinking wrong.

I think they believe that they believe lol

They don’t. Trans people themselves know more than anybody that you can’t change sex. And the handmaids just lie to themselves because otherwise their whole misguided #bekind worldview would come crashing down.

Very true. I must read more - I want to understand the women that police other women on behalf of men a bit better.

Like WTH are they thinking? We see it repeatedly, from the women who fought against the suffragettes to the young ‘Isis brides’ who were reportedly utterly brutal in punishing women not adhering to the terrible rules being imposed on them.

And women just say no.

Men flail around, threatening violence, committing it and hurl insults, abuse, whatever tactic.

It’s still no.

Only in your world.....one which the vast majority of humanity either don't recognise or simply reject.

Movements are organic things; they shift and morph according to their conditions and the environment.An organisation or a formal institution is the place for general rules and principles.

It's exasperating to see so much tone policing of women. But as we all know, we're on this thread because of the relentless and often violent policing of women's words and thoughts. Suppose we shouldn't expect anything different. As Andrea Dworkin pointed out way back in the 70s / 80s:

"Men often react to women's words—speaking and writing—as if they were acts of violence; sometimes men react to women's words with violence. So we lower our voices. Women whisper. Women apologize. Women shut up. Women trivialize what we know. Women shrink. Women pull back."

Not happening any more.

Everyone knows that feelings are subjective. It is not "irrational", though, to suggest that someone's feelings about themselves are not the ultimate determining factor in any situation.

You do your thing, but if it doesn't chime with general reality or common consensus then don't expect any validation for it.

Trans women are a sub set women via behavioural associations.

This does look a lot like the concept of ladybrain.

Trans women are a sub set women via behavioural associations.

Can you list some of these "behavioural associations"?

They must be things which apply to all women and men who pretend to be women, but not other men.

I’m guessing she’s less bothered about offending you?

It’s that special man treatment again. I feel like it’s similar to the way that some women fawn disproportionately over men doing less common things like childcare for example.

We need a good term to describe this behaviour.

Somebody I know actually told me that her “trans” friend is more of a woman than she is. How she continues to hold this view baffles me. And yes she holds left political views as well as protesting male violence. I think it is the friend relative thing which means they have to be kind. I have told her I am insulted and offended,

I don’t think that is quite the case. So called ‘transwomen’ are not treated like women by their supporters - they are treated as men with special privileges.

In trans activist circles there is a marked difference in the way women are treated compared to these special men. They know what they are.

This is basically 'let's define sex via some other criteria that isn't sex'.

The reasoning is just laughable

In a literal sense, the Latin prefix "trans" means "across," "beyond," or "on the other side of". It is frequently used as the direct opposite of the prefix "cis" which means "on the same side as".
The inference is across their natal sex.
Trans women are a sub set women via behavioural associations. Cis women are a subset of women via reproductive associations.

I think we’ve hit a glitch in the matrix - someone’s dug out the nonsense from 2015 and is trying to pretend it makes sense.

Do they though? Really?

If this is the case it is an extraordinary failing of our education system.

They genuinely believe trans women are literally women. It's bizarre

Precisely.

It's not ridiculous at all. We spent literally years making decent, polite arguments, when we still believed that it was a misunderstanding, not a deliberate activist tactic, and just needed discussion and good faith. We got no-platformed, threatened, hounded, lied about and demonised anyway.

I'm still not sure where we are supposed to have NOT made a decent argument, exactly. What is it you have a problem with?

Because I have a huge problem with the nature of the discourse from "the other side" and their allies. Do you castigate them as well, or is it just us who are supposedly "Not making a decent argument" here?

You are not adding to the conversation. You are not making any actual points, just complaining.