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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The first step towards an international instrument to abolish surrogacy.

188 replies

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 03/07/2026 08:26

"A group of states at the United Nations has launched a political declaration calling for an international moratorium on surrogacy, marking a significant first step in what its supporters hope will become a global abolitionist framework."

UN States Launch Political Declaration for Global Surrogacy Moratorium ━ The European Conservative

"That is a long road. But for those who oppose the buying and selling of babies and the exploitation of women, the fact that states have now placed the issue formally on the UN track is already the point: the market is global, and the response is beginning to become global, too."

I not sure I have any faith in the UN anymore, but hopefully this will gain some traction, I can see it clashing with the Global Left's Utopian ideals though.

UN States Launch Political Declaration for Global Surrogacy Moratorium

The declaration is not legally binding, but its promoters see it as the first step towards an international instrument to abolish surrogacy.

https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/un-states-launch-political-declaration-for-global-surrogacy-moratorium/

OP posts:
ElenOfTheWays · 04/07/2026 23:44

Becuriousnotjudgemental1980 · 04/07/2026 23:32

No need to be condescending. I understand the issues. I was simply giving an opinion based on a first hand experience. Am I not allowed to have a differing opinion? I wasn’t aware I had to agree with everyone.

But you don't have first hand experience.

You are not a surrogate, a parent of a surrogate child or a surrogate child yourself unless your post was actually about yourself and not a "friend"
What you related was a second hand account of someone else's experience.

Becuriousnotjudgemental1980 · 04/07/2026 23:32

ElenOfTheWays · 04/07/2026 22:23

Well, several posters have explained the issues to you in a few different ways and yet you remain determined not to understand. You seem oddly invested, in fact, in not understanding the issues. Explaining further would be a waste of time I think. You are not listening.

No need to be condescending. I understand the issues. I was simply giving an opinion based on a first hand experience. Am I not allowed to have a differing opinion? I wasn’t aware I had to agree with everyone.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 04/07/2026 23:13

It's alarming how many posters there are that have no problem with seeing women as walking incubators and new human beings as comfort blanket for adults.

OP posts:
Lexibletheflexible · 04/07/2026 23:11

Overworkedandknackered · 04/07/2026 22:45

Really? All children need are competent adults? Great, let’s get on and let the adoption services know, that’ll solve a lot of problems. Next stop world peace!

Did you quote what I said in its entirety?

hahabahbag · 04/07/2026 23:05

I’m very uncomfortable with surrogacy but truly altruistic surrogacy is different to commercial surrogacy eg sister for sister

ScrollingLeaves · 04/07/2026 22:58

Becuriousnotjudgemental1980 · 04/07/2026 21:51

i don’t agree. Genetically the baby is nothing to do with the surrogate. The babies went straight to their genetic parents and knew no different. All are happy thriving babies.

We don’t know that they know no different. They have spent 9 months with a certain person, then lose that person and go to another. We just do not know the effects.

Overworkedandknackered · 04/07/2026 22:45

Lexibletheflexible · 04/07/2026 22:22

The child would be fine. All children need are competent adults who love them to raise them. There is no reason to think parents by surrogacy can't be those people. Your outrage doesn't convince me.

Really? All children need are competent adults? Great, let’s get on and let the adoption services know, that’ll solve a lot of problems. Next stop world peace!

Olderbadger1 · 04/07/2026 22:43

Lexibletheflexible · 04/07/2026 22:30

If I decided to be a surrogate, I'd have agreed to take on those risks and I would view it as a temporary shelter type thing.

I don't think anyone would ask me at this age but I'd have done it for a close friend or family if it was a convenient time for my family.

I'm not sure it would be that simple - not easy to separate body and mind.

ElenOfTheWays · 04/07/2026 22:39

Lexibletheflexible · 04/07/2026 22:31

People are allowed to disagree with your opinions and hold views of their own.

What's that saying?
You can have your own opinions. You cannot make up your own facts.

Lexibletheflexible · 04/07/2026 22:31

ElenOfTheWays · 04/07/2026 22:23

Well, several posters have explained the issues to you in a few different ways and yet you remain determined not to understand. You seem oddly invested, in fact, in not understanding the issues. Explaining further would be a waste of time I think. You are not listening.

People are allowed to disagree with your opinions and hold views of their own.

Lexibletheflexible · 04/07/2026 22:30

Olderbadger1 · 04/07/2026 22:24

There might not always be a genetic link, but growing a baby in your body for 9 months is absolutely biological. The baby is kept alive via your blood supply; mother and baby 'swap cells'; bonding in utero is a physical reality. This extraordinary process, the painful and exhausting process of giving birth, and then having the child taken from you, are surely going to have a psychological impact. The notion that the surrogate mother just provides a temporary shelter for someone else's DNA feels so dismissive of the reality.

If I decided to be a surrogate, I'd have agreed to take on those risks and I would view it as a temporary shelter type thing.

I don't think anyone would ask me at this age but I'd have done it for a close friend or family if it was a convenient time for my family.

Olderbadger1 · 04/07/2026 22:24

Lexibletheflexible · 04/07/2026 18:38

I wouldn't see it as my baby if it wasnt genetically related to me and was planned to be raised by other people

There might not always be a genetic link, but growing a baby in your body for 9 months is absolutely biological. The baby is kept alive via your blood supply; mother and baby 'swap cells'; bonding in utero is a physical reality. This extraordinary process, the painful and exhausting process of giving birth, and then having the child taken from you, are surely going to have a psychological impact. The notion that the surrogate mother just provides a temporary shelter for someone else's DNA feels so dismissive of the reality.

ElenOfTheWays · 04/07/2026 22:23

Becuriousnotjudgemental1980 · 04/07/2026 21:56

And the father. The embryos were made from both parents so genetically nothing to do with her. She sees it very differently. I guess you have to have been in that situation to really know what it’s like. All the babies are thriving and the families are happy.

Well, several posters have explained the issues to you in a few different ways and yet you remain determined not to understand. You seem oddly invested, in fact, in not understanding the issues. Explaining further would be a waste of time I think. You are not listening.

Lexibletheflexible · 04/07/2026 22:22

Overworkedandknackered · 04/07/2026 20:37

ITS. NOT. ABOUT. WHAT. THE. ADULTS. WANT. Jesus fucking Christ, will no one put the best interests of the child first?

The child would be fine. All children need are competent adults who love them to raise them. There is no reason to think parents by surrogacy can't be those people. Your outrage doesn't convince me.

Becuriousnotjudgemental1980 · 04/07/2026 21:56

ElenOfTheWays · 04/07/2026 20:30

She did not "just carry them" this rhetoric is so dismissive and unhelpful.
She grew those children in her body. Her body created them - albeit from genetic material from another woman. Those babies were born knowing only her heartbeat, her feelings and her voice.
To paraphrase @Overworkedandknackered , she wasn't growing tomatoes - these are human beings not produce.

Edited

And the father. The embryos were made from both parents so genetically nothing to do with her. She sees it very differently. I guess you have to have been in that situation to really know what it’s like. All the babies are thriving and the families are happy.

Becuriousnotjudgemental1980 · 04/07/2026 21:53

Overworkedandknackered · 04/07/2026 20:35

And if the parents she sold those children to abuse them or murder them will she feel any responsibility for enabling that?

I’m sure she would just as she would if she gave a baby up for adoption. She didn’t ‘sell’ them either. They paid for private medical care and that’s it.

Becuriousnotjudgemental1980 · 04/07/2026 21:51

AnneLovesGilbert · 04/07/2026 20:50

The woman who gives birth to the baby is the baby’s mother. You try telling the baby that his or her genetic material was other people’s.

i don’t agree. Genetically the baby is nothing to do with the surrogate. The babies went straight to their genetic parents and knew no different. All are happy thriving babies.

AnneLovesGilbert · 04/07/2026 20:50

Becuriousnotjudgemental1980 · 04/07/2026 20:02

But the surrogate in most cases isn’t the mother? One of my friends has been a surrogate three times via ivf. The embryos were made by the parents and she just carried them. She sees it as the most rewarding thing she’s ever done. She’s helped make 3 beautiful families. I know it’s very nuanced subject and has been exploited in some countries but it can be a lovely thing as well.

The woman who gives birth to the baby is the baby’s mother. You try telling the baby that his or her genetic material was other people’s.

ScrollingLeaves · 04/07/2026 20:49

Cheese55 · 03/07/2026 13:31

I'm on the fence with non exploitative surrogacy but people will say pre natal bonding means the baby is harmed by severing that attachment at birth

This is what worries me. It is still too soon to know how babies this has happened to will feel or behave as they grow up.

I also am worried there might be baby farming going on, and some of buyers unsafe.

Overworkedandknackered · 04/07/2026 20:37

Lexibletheflexible · 04/07/2026 19:28

It would be fine with the parents who very much wanted and likely already love them.

ITS. NOT. ABOUT. WHAT. THE. ADULTS. WANT. Jesus fucking Christ, will no one put the best interests of the child first?

Overworkedandknackered · 04/07/2026 20:35

Becuriousnotjudgemental1980 · 04/07/2026 20:02

But the surrogate in most cases isn’t the mother? One of my friends has been a surrogate three times via ivf. The embryos were made by the parents and she just carried them. She sees it as the most rewarding thing she’s ever done. She’s helped make 3 beautiful families. I know it’s very nuanced subject and has been exploited in some countries but it can be a lovely thing as well.

And if the parents she sold those children to abuse them or murder them will she feel any responsibility for enabling that?

ElenOfTheWays · 04/07/2026 20:30

Becuriousnotjudgemental1980 · 04/07/2026 20:02

But the surrogate in most cases isn’t the mother? One of my friends has been a surrogate three times via ivf. The embryos were made by the parents and she just carried them. She sees it as the most rewarding thing she’s ever done. She’s helped make 3 beautiful families. I know it’s very nuanced subject and has been exploited in some countries but it can be a lovely thing as well.

She did not "just carry them" this rhetoric is so dismissive and unhelpful.
She grew those children in her body. Her body created them - albeit from genetic material from another woman. Those babies were born knowing only her heartbeat, her feelings and her voice.
To paraphrase @Overworkedandknackered , she wasn't growing tomatoes - these are human beings not produce.

ElenOfTheWays · 04/07/2026 20:18

Lexibletheflexible · 04/07/2026 18:10

Arenyou saying that if someone believes that trans men can get pregnant (because they can), then they shouldn't be a part of any discussion about pregnancy? Even if they are capable of conception themselves?

What?
Only women get pregnant. Transmen ARE women and a pregnancy is more than just "carrying" a child. Which was actually my main point.

And, frankly, I seriously doubt anyone would want to use a transman as a surrogate nor would any transman want to be one so the issue would never arise.
FWIW I myself believe a transman can indeed get pregnant- because they are WOMEN.

Mountainlarch · 04/07/2026 20:12

@WhereYouLeftIt I totally agree, those are plausible scenarios.
For a while, my sister couldn't get pregnant, and I lived with a lot of guilt as I was trying to get pregnant with a second child. (All went well in the end and she has two children too). But at the time I wondered if I would have offered to be a surrogate mother. It was all theoretical: I had preeclampsia with my first pregnancy and my sister wouldn't have accepted me taking the risk. But yes, things can get complicated during childbirth, and even a selfless act of love within a family can have unintended consequences and create a lot of pain.

Becuriousnotjudgemental1980 · 04/07/2026 20:02

AnneLovesGilbert · 03/07/2026 13:34

It might be mutually agreeable to the adults but what about the wellbeing of the baby who is conceived in the knowledge he or she will be immediately removed from their mother with all the well evidenced trauma that brings? We don’t take puppies away from their mums at birth, why humans?

But the surrogate in most cases isn’t the mother? One of my friends has been a surrogate three times via ivf. The embryos were made by the parents and she just carried them. She sees it as the most rewarding thing she’s ever done. She’s helped make 3 beautiful families. I know it’s very nuanced subject and has been exploited in some countries but it can be a lovely thing as well.