The first step towards an international instrument to abolish surrogacy.

I don't owe you sources. I'm just a layperson on a forum.

Ok find them and link them here, please.

In the UK, a common issue with adoptions that leads to breakdowns of the adoption is that parents are ill informed and ill supported about the extent of the adopted child's issues.

Where are you getting this information from? Can you link your sources please?

I haven't read reports but I have gone down the rabbit hole reading some stories. I don't claim to be a researcher.

Can you link to these reports by donor conceived children?

Landmark study finds no difference in psychological wellbeing or quality of family relationships between children born by assisted reproduction (egg or sperm donation or surrogacy) and those born naturally at age 20. However, findings suggest that telling children about their biological origins early – before they start school – can be advantageous for family relationships and healthy adjustment.

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/assisted-reproduction-kids-grow-up-just-fine-but-it-may-be-better-to-tell-them-early-about

I think donor and surrogacy children will be speaking out in greater numbers. I've read a lot from donor conceived children who have struggled with their parents decision and how things were handled.

The other thing that really stands out to me is how at least in the UK (can't comment on other cultures) many adoptive parents seem very informed and educated on the reality of what their children have gone through and demonstrate a level of understanding and compassion that you don't see in parents that have used surrogates. I don't get how we can be so different about these two things that are the same thing for the baby.

@TheBlueKoalalots of prospective parents won’t pass an adoption assessment. In my opinion some people can’t be parents needs to be normalised. I think it will be eventually.

@WhatNoRaisinsyou are spot on. The threshold for removing a new born baby upon discharge is rightly extremely high. Even in the last few years this has got much higher and mother and baby residential placements must be tried first even if the stakes are very high. There is case law Re BS when only adoption will do - eh we n every last resort have been ruled out for the baby.

We can certainly reduce the number of women who feel unable to care for their children with a more equal society. That would be the way to minimise the number of children relinquished to adoption due to a lack of resources.

What does the research say about the children born through surrogacy? Have you looked into their outcomes at all?

See I think that babies are mostly best off with their mums and we should be reducing the need for separations by supporting women to keep babies or have access to abortion and contraception when that's not possible. It's always a loss for the baby to lose their mother even if they are lucky enough to go to a good home.

I think what we should normalise is women having choice over their fertility and future. Adoption is part of that. As is abortion and even surrogacy.

In general I don't think that all opinions need to be shared all of the time. That said I don't think that the separation of mums and newborns is something that we should celebrate or normalise.

God thank god you dont then. There are several reasons why a woman may decide not to have an abortion and to adopt. It isn't something that happens often here, but in more religious countries or those without good healthcare, it happens more often.

The last thing those women need is some privileged woman from the UK or US telling her what a evil person she is.

Women are sometimes our own worst enemies.

I don't work around this sort of social work so I don't know how those that counsel women in this situation do so. I'd think it privately because I think that deliberately bringing a child into the world to put them in that situation is cruel.

If a pregnant woman was planning to put her child up for adoption, would you say all these things to her? How cruel she is etc?

Therr are many risks to being a donor. Who told you it is risk free? People have died donating organs.

Eta: i misunderstood the post. No worries.

Do you have first hand experience? Do you know anyone personally who is a surrogate or has had a child through surrogacy?

Agree. A child is not a "right" to have. If you can't have a child- adopt.

I haven’t heard this proposal and I think it makes a lot of sense.
the surrogate is committed , their body is committed and their health exposed, and the purchasing parents are only involved- unlike the organ donor case they aren’t at risk if it falls through, their health isn’t impacted, all they are giving up is something they’ve never had- the baby. Which is a human being at its most needy and vulnerable and someone has to look after it. The weight is left on the surrogate and the baby. Ukraine saw many examples of this.

This. What I don't get is that when it comes to child protection taking a newborn from their mother is the last resort because we understand the bond between a newborn and their mum. When it comes to surrogacy it's like we pretend that we don't know this.

Different things in different moments at different times. At the moment of birth, the commissioning parent is a stranger.

So if a woman has to use a donor egg and donor sperm for a non-surrogate pregnancy, she’s not the mother?

All this meddling in human conception has brought this about. Frozen embryos. Frozen eggs frozen sperm. Women using sperm from deceased partners. It's a slippery slope.

just because I’m none of those things doesn’t mean I can’t comment about it or that I don’t know what im talking about. I know the woman personally and have seen her go through all 3 pregnancies. Spoken to her daily about it. She’s not just a passing acquaintance. Seen the beautiful family photos of very happy parents. Surrogacy in her case was very personal and involved. In one case she is godmother to the baby! It’s not all about exploitation and horror stories. Some women do it for truly altruistic reasons. I’m allowed to have an opinion on something I was very close to. I’m not saying that it’s the same for everyone or that I don’t understand that there’s a dark side to it. In this case there isn’t.