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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

6 employees at a Mother and child unit shot and killed in Germany by a Father

32 replies

mrshoho · 30/06/2026 12:07

Stade shooting latest: Six killed and two detained after attack at German youth centre | World News | Sky News https://share.google/QVIbPOtsGP9Mng6mu

Horrific, just horrific. A man is told no and takes 6 lives. A place where the priority is to keep women and children safe. Only saving grace is no mothers or children were killed.

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/07/2026 15:48

Maybe a children’s service contact centre type place where supervised contact happened?

BertieBotts · 01/07/2026 15:44

Yes but what I mean is that "Mother-and-child welfare centre" might be a direct translation (some German news sources are calling it Mutter-Kind Einrichtung, whereas some call it Jugendeinrichtung) but it doesn't really encapsulate what it is because the facility doesn't exist in English and doesn't have a set definition even in German. So some people are picturing a womens' shelter, a medical facility for psychiatric treatment or something as bureaucratic as a benefits office - all sorts you could assume from that description. I'm not really sure TBH exactly what kind of facility this is, I just know that those places can be multi-use and the reports are saying the context and setting for the attack was a meeting relating to custody arrangements for this baby.

And "family-related" is again a direct translation of the wording they tend to use to mean "domestic violence" - it's not a bad translation, it's just that the connotations are very slightly different (IMO)

I would be wary about reports that are leaning heavily on the father's Turkish heritage because racial tensions are high in Germany right now. AfD are keen to push a narrative that all "foreigners" (but especially from middle eastern or adjacent countries) are violent savages who don't follow good Christian German laws, a bit like Reform in the UK. It might be that the father is involved with some kind of criminal organisation, but it might also be speculation.

There is a local newspaper/radio station with an article on their website reporting that the baby was taken to hospital at a few weeks old and the doctor diagnosed shaken baby syndrome, which triggered a whole cascade of things but as I understand, both mother and father were originally suspected of mistreating the baby. Then a "godmother" (I thought a mistranscription of grandmother but it is definitely "Patentante" = Godmother) has come in to challenge this and the parents have had legal advice etc, and so the baby is living with its mother but in this possibly supervised (?) type accommodation. According to that report, social workers and other government (likely local gov, as everything is extremely localised and siloed here) officials had been reporting that the father has been extremely aggressive and obstructive all the way through and the godmother has denied this and claimed it's all lies. Given how he has acted now, I think this is pretty unlikely, but it does sound like her word has been given a lot of weight, which I find strange. Germany is more religious than the UK but I didn't think godparents had legal status - I could be wrong about this though.

There is also some speculation about the woman driving the getaway car, who is about 20 years older than the man (so maybe an assumption, but probably not a girlfriend) and also described as some kind of support worker helping the family, which is strange. I wondered whether she might even be the Godmother who seemed to be very involved, because if she was a professional then it might make sense that her opinion was given more weight than if she was just a friend of the family. And I found it alarming that somebody had previously insisted that reports of the man being aggressive were false when he was clearly an extremely violent and dangerous man, even if he hadn't acted to that extent before.

Shaken Baby Syndrome I read a few months ago is a highly disputed diagnosis and may not even be real. I don't know enough about it to say if that means anything. Medical professionals suspected mistreatment of the baby, which seems the most important information.

What the whole thing makes me think is that it the family situation sounds fairly chaotic and badly managed, and it highlights again an issue which has been recurrent in Germany where the various professionals involved with a child at risk or a family aren't always in contact with each other and so nobody is building up an overall picture of the situation for the child/family.

mrshoho · 01/07/2026 15:37

Emilesgran · 01/07/2026 15:09

It occurs to me that I made a comment that could be read as saying that violence to the man's partner is less serious than violence to his child. Is that horrible of me or is it obvious that that's not what I was saying?

I think your post was clear and I read it in the way you intended. I believe this post may have been directed at me but I have already clarified what I actually meant so didn't respond to it.

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Emilesgran · 01/07/2026 15:09

tesseractor · 30/06/2026 17:58

Us non mothers are less worthy.

It occurs to me that I made a comment that could be read as saying that violence to the man's partner is less serious than violence to his child. Is that horrible of me or is it obvious that that's not what I was saying?

Notmycircusnotmyotter · 01/07/2026 13:59

tesseractor · 30/06/2026 17:58

Us non mothers are less worthy.

It's not about you

mrshoho · 01/07/2026 13:46

Germany shooting suspect accused of shaking three-month-old daughter: Reports | The Straits Times https://share.google/BYNRAapO8OwROm8Ut

An updated article confirms the two women initially arrested have since been released.

It seems he was previously aggressive and threatening to medical staff at the clinic where the baby was treated. An investigation was launched into his behaviour but was then dropped. What a terrible situation.

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Emilesgran · 01/07/2026 12:38

IwantToRetire · 01/07/2026 01:53

Apparently (according to AI) the direct translation is:

Officials—including Lower Saxony's Interior Minister Daniela Behrens—have stated the attack is being investigated as family-related, stemming from an ongoing dispute over child custody.

And expanded to say this:

The Motive: Both German outlets like Bild and British outlets like the BBC confirm that the shooting stemmed from a private family custody dispute over a three-month-old girl. 1, 2]

The Suspect: German police statements—reprinted identically in the UK—identify the main suspect as a 45-year-old German citizen of Turkish origin living in Hanover. 1, 2]

The Victims: Both presses accurately report that six people were killed (four women and two men), all of whom were staff members at the mother-and-child welfare shelter. 1, 2]

The Baby's Safety: Reports in both countries correctly state that the infant and her mother were present at the facility during the scheduled appointment but were unharmed. 1, 2]

The Background Context: Follow-up reports published by Agence France-Presse (AFP) and shared across UK platforms like Yahoo News accurately translate German prosecutor updates, noting the custody dispute was linked to allegations that the father had previously shaken his infant daughter. 1]

So it's not just the child's mother that he's been violent to, as I had assumed, but his own baby? And yet his own mother was helping him take back the child he had previously hurt (and that's giving the mother the credit of thinking that's what was intended, rather than knowingly taking part in a murder plot).

IwantToRetire · 01/07/2026 01:53

Apparently (according to AI) the direct translation is:

Officials—including Lower Saxony's Interior Minister Daniela Behrens—have stated the attack is being investigated as family-related, stemming from an ongoing dispute over child custody.

And expanded to say this:

The Motive: Both German outlets like Bild and British outlets like the BBC confirm that the shooting stemmed from a private family custody dispute over a three-month-old girl. 1, 2]

The Suspect: German police statements—reprinted identically in the UK—identify the main suspect as a 45-year-old German citizen of Turkish origin living in Hanover. 1, 2]

The Victims: Both presses accurately report that six people were killed (four women and two men), all of whom were staff members at the mother-and-child welfare shelter. 1, 2]

The Baby's Safety: Reports in both countries correctly state that the infant and her mother were present at the facility during the scheduled appointment but were unharmed. 1, 2]

The Background Context: Follow-up reports published by Agence France-Presse (AFP) and shared across UK platforms like Yahoo News accurately translate German prosecutor updates, noting the custody dispute was linked to allegations that the father had previously shaken his infant daughter. 1]

Emilesgran · 01/07/2026 00:16

BertieBotts · 01/07/2026 00:09

TBH there are some very odd things coming out in the German media and I think the whole picture will make more sense in a few days/weeks.

Well other than the father being a violent maniac which seems clear already.

Yes there's some talk of him being part of a Kurdish(?)/Turkish crime family, or maybe a clan - is that what you mean?
(Again I've only seen that in English, so it may not be entirely accurate either)

BertieBotts · 01/07/2026 00:09

TBH there are some very odd things coming out in the German media and I think the whole picture will make more sense in a few days/weeks.

Well other than the father being a violent maniac which seems clear already.

BertieBotts · 01/07/2026 00:00

Emilesgran · 30/06/2026 21:32

The media (presumably quoting the German police) are saying it is a family incident.

This is just a mistranslation. The German news media have some truly stomach churning/eye roll worthy terms they tend to use for Domestic Violence, the most common one being "Familiendrama" which sounds like an argument over the washing up, not a mass shooting.

They are reporting the incident as being DV related because it is, it's related to a child custody case. The child and the child's mother were not harmed, which I think might be because they were not present although I'm not sure.

The people who were killed were likely social workers and other professionals working with the family, although they haven't released details yet. TBH I thought of this when I saw the thread yesterday about social workers being at risk from violent parents.

It is not that unusual for criminals in Germany to be able to get hold of guns because it has so many borders with countries which are all part of the Schengen agreement so they are unmanned. That said, it's not common either. It doesn't compare to the US for example, people aren't going around fearing violence day to day. But they do have some fairly bad stats for gun violence compared with other European countries.

The reporting in the English language media is very confusing because there are mistranslations all over the place, some of the terms used (e.g. Jugendeinrichtung) don't have a direct translation to English anyway. Essentially this is a building usually owned/run by the local social services department which may serve as a kind of youth club or hub for youth services, but can also be used as a place for meetings to happen such as the meeting which happened in this case, and sometimes they have living facilities or can be schools as well. The one closest to me is a special school for SEMH but is also a residential care home as well as running various other services. It's too far away from anything to be a drop in service but they have an office in the village centre which does have drop ins. The Jugendamt is slightly different in scope to the UK children's services/social services.

mrshoho · 30/06/2026 23:39

amargaritaplease · 30/06/2026 23:14

What a vile thing to say

What is vile about it?

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amargaritaplease · 30/06/2026 23:14

mrshoho · 30/06/2026 12:50

Of course I am horrified by the murders of these innocent employees. I can see how my wording may be taken to mean their lives are not as valued but I didn't mean it that way and yes they could be mothers or fathers. I meant the mothers and children housed there where they sought safety from harm. It does say in other articles that there are a number of wounded people too. I find it horrific that a man feels he can do this because he's been told no.

What a vile thing to say

Emilesgran · 30/06/2026 21:32

IwantToRetire · 30/06/2026 19:33

Who is saying anything other than this?!

The media (presumably quoting the German police) are saying it is a family incident.

IwantToRetire · 30/06/2026 19:34

tesseractor · 30/06/2026 17:58

Us non mothers are less worthy.

Nobody has said that. Someone misunderstood.

IwantToRetire · 30/06/2026 19:33

SilenceInside · 30/06/2026 17:34

It’s clear from the BBC article linked up thread that the man, who was later arrested, opened fire on the people who he was there meeting with to discuss custody arrangements for his baby daughter. He is not related or acquainted with anyone he killed.

Who is saying anything other than this?!

tesseractor · 30/06/2026 17:58

Us non mothers are less worthy.

SilenceInside · 30/06/2026 17:34

It’s clear from the BBC article linked up thread that the man, who was later arrested, opened fire on the people who he was there meeting with to discuss custody arrangements for his baby daughter. He is not related or acquainted with anyone he killed.

IwantToRetire · 30/06/2026 17:31

I heard this on the news earlier today and thought it was probably familicide ie when men kill wife and children rather than lose control of them.

But this recent news story (which may be wrong) seems to indicate something different:

All the victims - four women and two men - were employees of the facility. The man’s three-month-old daughter and the mother are safe.
The alleged shooter, the mother, and another female are in custody, officials said.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/article/six-killed-in-shooting-at-mother-and-child-shelter-in-northern-germany/

and this:

Two suspects fled in a vehicle driven by a female companion, and police pursued them along B73, stopping the car after shooting out a tyre before arresting both at gunpoint; another woman was detained later. The area was sealed off as forensic experts and police examined the scene.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/insight/police-say-custody-battle-behind-stade-shooting-that-killed-six/gm-GM2D814C5B

I suppose better to wait rather than speculate.

But obviously any one shot by a man who thinks if he cant get this way he can get a gun and kill people to show just how angry he is at not getting his way.

Police officers patrol the scene in Stad, Germany, Monday, June 29, 2026 following a shooting where five people were killed, police said. (Marcus Golejewski/dpa via AP)

Six killed in shooting at mother-and-child shelter in northern Germany

A 45-year-old man in an apparent child custody dispute was the suspected shooter at a shelter for mothers and children in northern Germany that left six dead on Monday, officials said.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/article/six-killed-in-shooting-at-mother-and-child-shelter-in-northern-germany/

BettyscakeShop · 30/06/2026 17:19

Why are the mothers there though more important than the staff? I’m mystified in your thinking. People don’t go to work expecting to be murdered.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 30/06/2026 13:32

Yet another man gives us good reason to pick the bear :(

They really do see other people as NPCs don't they?

mrshoho · 30/06/2026 12:50

Of course I am horrified by the murders of these innocent employees. I can see how my wording may be taken to mean their lives are not as valued but I didn't mean it that way and yes they could be mothers or fathers. I meant the mothers and children housed there where they sought safety from harm. It does say in other articles that there are a number of wounded people too. I find it horrific that a man feels he can do this because he's been told no.

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/06/2026 12:41

As @SilenceInside said, we don’t know that any of the six adult employees killed weren’t parents anyway. It’s likely that at least some would be.

SilenceInside · 30/06/2026 12:41

Thanks, the BBC article is clearer. It sounds like this man shot the people he was meeting with regarding the custody of his baby daughter. Absolutely horrific.

MarieDeGournay · 30/06/2026 12:40

That's why he wasn't getting custody of a vulnerable little human being....

I agree that there is something particularly horrific in the killing of children, of babies, but I hope the OP mis-spoke when she suggested that the murder of people who are not mothers or children can in any way be seen as being a 'saving grace'.

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