Draft Conversion Practices Bill - published

You aren't really suggesting that young people are under threat from rape because people have told them that they are the sex they are?

I'd say the biggest threats from sexual assault come from within their own 'community', not from people who reject trans ideology/gender identity theory.
Young women with trans identities are taken advanatage of by predatory older men ( often with a trans or 'queer' identity themselves; and young men with trans identities taken advantage of by the same )

Young trans people are being treated as fair game for rape and sexual assault because ignorant older people are targeting them for hate.

And that's not anecdote. It's happened to my son. He was told it didn't count if he was touched.

Making transphobic attacks on entire minorities will result in pushback, and I dont know why you'd be surprised.

Maybe stop encouraging the far right in their desire to assault and kill trans people and stand beside them. Because attacks on bodily autonomy never stop with one minority. The monster that feeds on hatred only grows hungrier and demands more targets.

No child is the opposite sex to that which they are. Best help them to come to terms with that in any way that works for them.They can experiment with hair and clothes, or with hobbies and activities, but nurturing the idea that they are 'trans' is irresponsible. Anyone doing that is setting them up for great difficulty going forward; and how are they going to view those adults who encourhgaed them once the reality kicks in?

You can take it from my response that I'm repulsed by your ignorant transphobia.

Trans people identifying as gay or straight isn't any kind of emergency. It's just something you don't agree with.

I've literally just finished reading about the evil man who organised the drug-assisted gang rape of his wife. As if you taking offence at how people describe themselves even registers as important, when women have so much pain in their lives, are under so much threat.

You're helping endanger trans people with this poison, enabling the very real violence my child's suffered, while doing absolutely nothing to help women. Yes I am annoyed by that.

"Supporting a child" does not necessarily mean validataing a false premise or imagining.

One of the reasons we are witnessing a mental health crisis amongst young people is not just down to social media, but also because many have lost all emotional resillience and ability to deal with the more difficult aspects and demands of life. The idea that we must protect young people and children from hard truths, or keep them away from anything which is upsetting or challenging, is not supporting them.

Not everything is about feelings. Children need to be able to learn to get their feelings into persepctive. You can appreciate that a child may think they are really of the opposite sex...and give them some space to be with that feeling; but to validate it and tell them that maybe they are the opposite sex is the absolute height of irresponsibility, and failure to parent with appropriate boundaries.

Great response! No points made, just ad hominem.

All I take from your response is that you believe a biological male and a biological female in a relationship can describe themselves as a gay male couple and actual gay people cannot object to that. Lesbians and gay men should basically shut up and let heterosexuals tell us what it means to be gay and represent gay people. You also object to the idea that it's ok to tell a young gay boy who is distressed about gender issues because of his sexuality that it's ok to like boys and he's fine as he is.

You agree that lesbians must be willing to have relationships and sex with heterosexual biological males who claim to identify as lesbians, otherwise we lesbians are no better than racists.

Are you also fine with anyone expressing a different view of you on these issues being prosecuted for "conversion therapy"? Because it's views that are different from yours that this draft bill seeks to criminalise.

No, I'm saying your post is emotionally coercive. Trying to tell parents that their two options are to support their child in their transgender identity, or to 'break them' is appalling. Saying if you disagree with a child being trans you are opening them up to street and school violence because they won't be able to access medical transition is disgusting.

When a child says to their parents that they think they are transgender, they are most likely not transgender but are extremely unhappy. There are many reasons why a child who is extremely unhappy may end up thinking that they're transgender, not least because there is a horde of people on the internet (and, probably like you, in real life) who will point them in that direction and then egg them on. Some for fun. Some for self-validation. Some out of a misguided sense of do-gooding. Scammers who want to groom kids into medication that they will personally profit from are also out there working hard.

Of course a parent whose child expresses to them that they are extremely unhappy should give them a hug and say that they love them. But to suggest that validating a trans identity that the child will probably grow out of is the only correct and safe course of action for that child is emotional coercion. One step from saying that they'll commit suicide if you don't.

This bill should be trying to protect children from people like you.

The truth always hurts abusive people.

Calling kids needing support from the parents they are utterly dependent on 'emotional coercion' is DARVO, pure and simple.

This is absolute bollocks. Talk about 'emotional coercion'!

Wow. You really need to get out more, learn to accept differemce and leave other people alone. This is unbelievably ignorant nonsense.

When a child comes out to their parents, they are at their most vulnerable. They're usually terrified, however much front they're projecting.

A parent has two choices in that moment: reject them, or hug and ask questions later. Because it's usually a surprise.

Teens are like any other child - totally dependent on their parents. They need to be able to trust them.

Destroy that trust, and you will eventually destroy their love for you.

'Dramatic' is a word often used by abusers to put down people (usually children, but often women too) who show emotion. It's pretty much guaranteed to hurt.

Disagreeing with your child is different to actively trying to change them. Kids deserve respect, and not to live in a home where someone's constantly putting them down.

If you disagree with a child being trans, there is basically zero chance they will be able to access any medical interventions. Surgery is banned for under-18s in most places and without significant financial support they won't be able to access hormonal support. So any transition will be social. At which point, that child becomes incredibly vulnerable to street and school violence.

So the parent has a decision. Respect their child, or help break them.

Exactly. It’s potentially a “waaaah my parents don’t let me do everything I want to” charter.

Amazing how one can know so many trans people, and one's kids can know so many trans kids.

I would love to hear the parents' side of this and what their version of 'rejecting their child' is.

And whether 'self-protection' is just 'not wanting to hear someone disagree with them'.

Teens can be very self-involved and prone to drama. Adults around them should not be feeding into that.

I do think going up against parents could cause a major rethink, even if the whole thing is not dropped. It's like (and I think could be argued for) going after parents for raising your children in an evangelical Christian way of life (is the government really going to come after you for doing this? not if you're not abusing your children) or going after pensioners for their very last pension penny (TV licence for over 75s anyone?).

Going after the parents, even if they think they will never be That Parent in That Situation, is madness. All parents will be worried that they will be next, and parents do not like the Government telling them how to raise their children!

I think a lot of these MPs and cabinet members are too stupid and tribalistic to understand the full implications, including the possibility that people on the gender identity ideology side will be prosecuted for encouraging transition.

From Bayswater ( thanks fromorbit)

Escaping prosecution will be scant consolation for those subjected to this onslaught of fabrication and intimidation.

Ah, yes, this sounds familiar- the process is the punishment.

Now, where have we heard that before, and to whom does this normally apply?

TBH, I can't see a Burnham team dropping this at all. It is one thing that will be offered to the activists in return for their support. The activist faction in the Labour party is pulling the strings here. It's a power grab.

Bridget was boasting about the “fully trans inclusive bill” the other day in front of the Women and Equalities Committee and she also deflected by saying she was hoping for “less newspaper headlines about trans people” now the EHRC code has been laid. Don’t think so Bridge.

And ramming through the SEND bill in full face of everyone explaining in detail what's wrong with it and why it won't work, and multiple legal challenges in process.

Sex Matters analysis very useful with stats and good points. Read it.

Draft conversion-practices bill threatens parents with jail time

What happens next?
Ministers have opted for the slow track: the draft bill will be sent for pre-legislative scrutiny by a joint committee. This gives parliamentarians, clinicians, parents and teachers a vital window to influence what happens next.

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/draft-conversion-practices-bill-threatens-parents-with-jail-time/

That point is very useful. The fact is it going through a committee stage gives us to organise. A huge weakness as well is the clear aim of the bill is to criminalize parents. It is very vulnerable there as that is obviously unpopular and unworkable.

James Esses interview on GB news on why the bill must be stopped:

Here is my full interview on GB News about the monstrous ‘Conversion Practices Bill’. It is worse than I ever could have imagined.
https://nitter.net/JamesEsses/status/2070213018957328672

Toby Young
Banning trans conversion therapy will cause far more harm than it prevents
It will deter parents from having honest conversations with children who believe they have been born into the wrong bodies

https://archive.ph/kySBU

Lets say this again. It is clear the TAs in the Labour government think they are being clever putting the puberty blockers and this bill out at the same time.

Hating gay kids and autistic teens is not ok. Trying to trick them into surgery and hormones so they FIT your strict rules of gender is awful.

You are not getting away with this time. We are going all in to save the kids.
We have dismantled the TA prison rape camps for women in Scotland. It took us 20 years. They lasted that long because of the coverup.

Too many know the truth now. This time the good guys are organised. We have the best lawyers in the UK onside.

Right now we need to gather information as on this thread debate the bill before we start a mass lobbying effort and information spreading.

Even if we fail we are going to going down fighting and we will come back even stronger. The truth will win. If not today in a few years time.

Are you aware that the bill refers to the Equality Act for its definition of sexual orientation? So it’s based on biological sex, so a “trans lesbian” is a straight or bisexual man.

(7) “Sexual orientation” has the same meaning as in Equality Act 2010 (see section 12(1)).

Equality Act:

12 Sexual orientation
(1) Sexual orientation means a person’s sexual orientation towards—
(a) persons of the same sex,
(b) persons of the opposite sex, or
(c) persons of either sex.

We are all either male or female. 'Sexuality' is the experience of feeling like a sexual being . 'Sexual orientation' is where that sex drive is oriented for its satisfaction.

What you are calling. 'trans children' are just children like any other - but whose emotional or adaptational distress has been captured and manipulated by an adult ideology ( An ideology is a set of ideas or theories about hown the world is, or should be). Normal childhood feelings and imaginings are harnessed in the service of adult agendas. Having a 'trans child' can also create a special identity for the parent who nurtures that idea. There are numerous parents parading their 'trans children' around on social media for their own enrichment, 'likes and gains. This could also be considered abuse.

You are entitled to your ideological belief system and the framwork that has been erected around it - comprised of terminology such as 'Cis' and 'Pan' but it is a kind of luxury belief that most people don't subscribe to and which tends to dissolve on contact with hard reality - for the reason it is totally dependent on social acceptance for its existence and for its claims about itself.

Encouraging a child in a false belief that is not going to be accepted by wider society is not being a good parent, surely. The idea that we should endlessly indulge and encourage every passing feeling or fantasy and this is what constitutes love is highly questionable. Love also entails holding boundaries and being aware of the reality a child will inhabit for the rest of their lives.

Sexual orientation is not an 'identity' - unless you make it into one and have everything revolve around it.

playground squabble anyway, taking years, costing God knows how much, using up court time,

A lot of activists are very keen on, and well-practiced in, using delay tactics to allow them to keep doing whatever it is they want to do, while pretending that they are waiting for the law to be settled. So they can keep looking for "eggs" to crack in the interim, something which seems like will become unlawful if the Bill does become law, and if their actions are deemed harmful (just picking up what a previous poster said).

And, in the meantime, if someone else is paying for court cases, why should they care?

I'm glad to see so much push back and by people who know what they're talking about.

On a depressing note however, the people who objected to the PB trial also knew what they were talking about and the muppets in parliament are still going ahead with that. 🤬