Draft Conversion Practices Bill - published

Furthermore Hillary Cass and other clinicians have made sure that doctors and therapists will have the space to practice their ocupation without fear of being accused of 'transphobia'. Normal clinical or therapeutic investigation is not 'conversion'.

Latin and Greek*

Perhaps in your head there are gangs of adults 'transing' children

There are, or at least attempting to. Why do you think so many trans kids are autistic/ gay/ with poor mental health? Because this makes them more vulnerable to the messaging.

I haven't ignored abuse, I briefly discussed it earlier. I also mentioned that I think that affirming children into the belief that they are 'trans' could also be se seen as a form of abuse - one disguised as 'kindness'. Not preparing a child for the world as it is, or the reality of their situatiion is certainly a form of neglect.

No child is in 'the wrong body'. They are perfect the way that they are. The parents' job is to provide them with containment and with healthy boundaries, and also with opportunities to explore their various talents and potentialities.

The prefix 'dys' - suggests a disorder or a dysfunction, and 'phoria' relates to the mind/mental state. It is not indicative of someone who needs to have their natural biological processes halted and suppressed in pursuit of the unobtainable. It is not nonsense. They are word categories that originate from Latin. Anyone familiar with medicine or psychiatry would know this.

Dystonia is a muscle dysfunction. Dyspepsia is a digestive malfunction. Dystopia is a nightmare world worthy of science fiction. Dysmennorhea is a dysfunction or disorder of the menses. Dysentry is a disease of the entrails.

Well yeah, trans people are all-powerful. Remains a mystery why they've banned themselves from sports they weren't winning (or in many cases, even playing), got trans women carted off to be raped in men's prisons and passed all kinds of oppressive measures against themselves.

Also why they've not allowed trans children any healthcare. Quite the slip-up, really.

It's almost like trans people are a persecuted minority who suffer street violence, parental alienation and unemployment. But recognising th at would involve addressing your hate for them, I know.

And I'm sorry, 'transwidow'?! Wow. Nothing like individual or collective responsibility for break-ups, huh.

Yes, obviously abusive partners of any gender should be kept away from their victims. As a survivor I completely support that. But it has nothing to do with how people identity.

Still no perspective, still the rage huh. Quelle surprise, what would your life be without it. Please do something to heal your life, because this anger at a minority really isn't normal, constructive - or feminist.

None of that's relevant to what I just said.

I was talking about the very real experiences of trans children and young trans adults. And how damaging it is when their parents - often the only people they have in the world to protect them - let them down.

You've completely ignored what I said about parental abuse, and the irreparable damage it does.

Wittering on about therapy and your beliefs doesn't alter any of that. What on earth is 'trans-affirming' therapy - you mean, the kind where a child isn't forcibly told they shouldn't be trans?!

Any therapist who failed to respect a trans child would be reported as abusive. Therapy is about the individual, not ideology.

As for the 'dys' nonsense - do you also believe dystonia is a MH issue? Or dysmennorrhea? Dyspepsia? Dysentery? Because that's quite unforgivably ignorant. The prefix is widely used within medicine. It absolutely doesn't denote mental health issues.

Perhaps in your head there are gangs of adults 'transing' children. Of course, I appreciate realising that you enable violence against trans children with all this deeply ignorant hate speech (please don't give up the day job or pretend you know anything about medicine again) would be hard.

If this Bill is shown to be "bad for trans" no way will it pass into law. They're the only ones who count. The ones pulling the strings will realize that this will mean that every transwidow will be able to get an order against their estranged husband, every parent in a school could get an order issued against every activist teacher, and organizations like Diversity Role Models and Stonewall will be out of business overnight.

Someone earlier said it will be the non-crime hate incident issue all over again. I think they're right.

And do we assume that the people who drafted the legislation were unaware of this? Are they that stupid?

Badly drafted legislation: causing problems since 2004 (and doubtless well before that too).

I've always said 'trans' is the conversion therapy, especially if you're a children who just confused because of their sexual orientation, and is really just gay.

Had a quick skim through the thread and didn’t see this mentioned but someone on twitter has just pointed out that based on the way this legislation is written many trans people could be guilty of conversion practices.

Any married woman or man who transitions and then tries to convince their spouse that they are now homosexual would be potentially liable to a fine and 5 years in prison.

They would be applying emotional pressure, possibly also economic and/or sexual and it is easy to see how this could cause psychological distress and harm.

I don't even accept the concept of 'genuinely trans' so accusations of transphobia mean nothing to me.

Dysphoria is, by definition, a mental health issue. The clue is in the prefix 'DYS'.
You don't treat mental health issues by blocking healthy, normal natural bodily processes, or by giving cross sex hormones - to someone whose natural biology is not programmed to be receptive to it without it causing harms.

There is a reason why the child is feeling dysphoric or distressed. That is best explored with appropriate therapy.....and that is certainly not 'trans affirmative' therapy. No child is the 'wrong sex'; they simply are the sex that they are and the most appropriate therapy will help them resolve their dysphoria, or certainly cast some light onto what has caused it.

Your child is just as the relative start of their adult life.......given 10 years, or maybe even fewer, you may very find they desist. Most do; even those who have gone through surgeries such as mastectomies.

Instead, the bill relies on subjective assessments to define what constitutes criminally "abusive" conduct, stating that this would need to involve "controlling or coercive words or behaviour" or "use of psychological or emotional pressure".
Accusations of psychological or emotional abuse are rife when it comes to transgender identity.

As noted many times, enough TRAs are more than willing to engage in harassment, vexatious litigation and violent protests in response to women saying no. Very often there is an extreme overreaction to even measured comments (literal genocide, denying existence) illustrated by some on this thread. It’s not a stretch to believe that this bill would be a frequently used tool to harass the naysayers and introduce self ID by the back door.

I’m really hating the activists of the Labour Party. Esp with Starmer gone. Leaving centrist voters with no one to vote for. Why have just two issues sent this country into a spiral of insanity? And ironically neither has any kind of real impact for the vast majority of British citizens!

I email a link to this story to my waste of space MP over a year ago with reference to the talk about his party bringing in a Conversion Therapy Ban Bill. I pointed out that if the ban became law this father could be prosecuted and sent to prison.

I've resent it to him pointing out again if he votes for this, he will be party to criminalizing parents who are just trying to be parents.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13200243/australia-puberty-blockers-father.html

Is there any gardening in relation to this? Can’t believe what I’ve read and what to help fight this becoming law.

Shockingly bad law. As it’s written a parent talking with their child about legitimate concerns with ‘transition’ could be deemed “emotional pressure” and thus criminalised. Insanity.

Young people are being groomed on-line into rejecting their families. Invited to joining some kind of 'rainbow' family instead. Family alienation and estrangment is becoming more common, and not just in those who adopt a trans identity. Young people have been groomed to think that they must never encounter resistance or be faced with any boundaries and encouraged to cut their parents off.

And yes, some parents may be genuinely abusive - but most are just trying to do their best and care about their child's future well-being. Being caring, as a parent, entails a great deal of forethought and responsibility...it is not about becoming your child's best friend who validates them at every turn.

What about the many children who grow out of their trans identity?

I'm presuming your son is a biological female. It's terrible your child was abused in such a way, but I'd suggest also considering how young biological females - whatever their "gender identity" - are a main target for those seeking to groom and manipulate young people. Perhaps what happened to your child is more because your child is a biological female rather than because they identify as trans. Young trans-identified people of either sex are also more open to such manipulation because they end up on such dodgy, "trans-friendly" sites online.

As for everything else you say, you take a very histrionic, confrontational approach and pretty much all your points are very difficult to substantiate.

I get that trans and their allies have got used to getting what they want through emotional blackmail and emotional outbursts, but that is over now and you might want to change your tactics. Not bashing everyone who disagrees with you might be a good start.

Anyway, I don't have the time or energy to go over the same points over and over again, so good luck to you.

The suicidal ideation results from untreated gender dysphoria, street harassment, and school violence.

I don't want my kid to be trans, because I have seen how much hurt he's been through. I've also seen him struggle through that to gain qualifications, go through therapy and rebuild his life.

And I know none of that would have been possible without my accepting, supporting and respecting him. I've seen what happened to two trans kids his age who didn't get parental support.

All three remain trans.

It's easier for you to believe in Big Bads creating trans people than to accept the impact transphobia has on young people, that's all. Victim-blaming always comforts.

I'm a parent, a grandparent, an ex teacher and also have counselling experience. It is a false sense of support when you encourgae your child to believe something that is essentially not true. Children need firm lines and boundaries or else they don't feel safe or contained. Indulging them in every feeling is not love. You can permit a child to explore and try things out....but not when it results in them holding a false belief about the world in the longer term.

Children are struggling to form an identity. Theye are very susceptible to the messages in their environment. A responsible teacher or parent should hold the line for them.

Grooming children into cutting contact with their parents is very common among abusers and cults. People should be wary of any people who promote it.

Haven't read the whole thread but I find this really alarming. Also, doesn't it conflict with Forstater?

Agist - I’ll bet a fair proportion of the rape and sexual assault comes from younger people unless you have evidence to the contrary!

and hang on - has anyone one here actually encouraged the far right or anyone to assault and kill transpeople? Really ? Or is that a pile of shit that you have lobbed into the room you believe any old crap?

Can you not see how encouraging a child/young person into this special minority identity is actually harming them? Making them feel permanently threatened or unsafe, and having the idea of suicide ideation thrust upon them as part of their condition, or their vulnerable identity.

Of course it isn't irresponsible. It's being supportive, and making your child feel less lonely at an incredibly difficult and quite terrifying time in their lives.

I know young trans people who got no support at all. Didn't stop them being trans, but their relationship with their parents is destroyed. You cannot love people you cannot trust - the only solution is to keep them at an emotional distance.