All transwomen are to be moved out of Scottish female prisons today. 🙌🏻

I’ve said before, James and the odious NHSE fiddler Stephen Whittle have a lot to answer for.

Some women really hate their sex, don't they?

Hi MummyWillow1, it looks like you didn't read my post at 17.51 yesterday:

It's worth noting that transwomen prisoners are not going to be just 'thrown to the wolves' in men's prisons - Lady Ross's judgment made it clear that the PC of gender reassignment applies to trans-IDing men in men's prisons, and that there are already arrangements in place to protect those PC rights in men's prisons:
[124] There are, of course, means of protecting trans prisoners’ rights which do not involve accommodation in a prison for the opposite biological sex. I have referred already, at paragraphs [7] and [112], to the various forms of special provision set out in the Prisons Guidance. In this context, it can be understood that there are arrangements made allowing a trans prisoner to “live in their affirmed gender” and that, with those measures in place, the respondents respect that trans prisoner’s Article 8 right to a private life.
I'm not making a value judgement on that, I'm just heading off any suggestion that transwomen will be placed in danger in vulnerable situations when they are returned to men's prisons. They won't be.

Don't worry, the Prison Guidance has it covered. Transwomen will be safely housed, in the appropriate prisons i.e. men's prisons.

And there is of course no question, as you'd know if you'd actually read and understood the judgment, no question of these men being dumped back into the male estate and left in harm's way. The judge shared at length that these men recieve careful and privileged treatment very different to those of other men, and repeatedly emphasised that provision for them must be made with safety in mind. The prison service bends over backwards for them, they are far more cared about and protected than the SPS has ever bothered to do for any women prisoners.

The only difference is that these men will no longer have access to non consenting women as part of their provision. That's the only beef. That the prison service, kicking and screaming all the way, are now forced to extend some safety and equality for women too.

And just to set you straight on your other claim, that putting men in women’s prisons was not due to campaigning, this is from James Morton, a trans-identified woman, who specifically campaigned for men to be put in women’s prisons:

We strategised that by working intensively with the Scottish Prison Service to support them to include trans women as women on a self-declaration basis within very challenging circumstances, we would be able to ensure that all other public services should be able to do likewise.

Interesting you're very concerned about males being assaulted, but fine with those males assaulting, harassing and harming women.

There in a nutshell is why as a society we still need rigid protections in law for women. It protects them from those who believe that women having equal rights too is 'backward'.

You sound very confused.

Society moved backwards when it was decided, without consultation, to take away women’s hard fought-for rights to their own spaces, and that it was A-ok to endanger women by forcing them to be banged up, trapped and vulnerable, with male rapists.

Women are not sacrificial lambs for the shortcomings of the prison service when it comes to protecting vulnerable males. Women are not of lesser importance than men.

Until this thread, which I only spotted today, I didn't see a whisper of any of this in the news. Following this thread I had to go into The Telegraph, Time and BBC to search, had to go to the UK sections, then into the Scotland section. Very odd especially since I'm very atunned to this particular issue.

Have you wondered why men were moved to women's prison's in the first place? Do you consider that society moving forwards? In what way? Putting transexual men, who statistically commit more sex crimes than the male prisons in with women is progressive ?

Your concern for prison staff and guards is noted. Also noted is your lack of concern for women prisoners. Who statistically are very poor women, uneducated women, abused women. Most of whom have a dreaded fear of all men.

Yeah, and they seem to be legitimate addresses, too. I really hope nobody is going to be endangered by the TRAs 😨

There are lots of vulnerable men in prison. Old men, gay men, mentally challenged men. They don’t get put in women’s prisons to protect them from being turned into a mess that the prison guards need to clean up. Why is that, I wonder?

Women aren’t protective shields for gender confused men. If gender confused men are under threat in men’s prisons, it is not female prisoners’ job to solve that problem.

Know this for a fact do you, because it's sounds like more counterfactual information to me.
It's the Prison's Services job to make sure prisoners don't attach each other, it's not the job of female's who are incarcerated to act as human shields.

What about down south in the 26. I don't think they can move the transexual males out of the Irish women's prisons because we don't have the Equality Law the UK has and our Gender Law seems to make transexual men actual women under the law. We don't seem to have the biological reality of the sexes basically.

It was because the prison guards were sick of having to clean up the mess after they were attacked constantly.

Evidence, please? Thanks.

You are arguing that mixed sex prisons are progressive. We've heard this one.

In Scotland, men who say they are trans are generally housed in HMP Edinburgh, on the Saughton wing for vulnerable prisoners.

It was because the prison guards were sick of having to clean up the mess after they were attacked constantly.

Even if that were true, the solution is not to transfer them in a place where they don't belong, and where they endanger the legitimate occupants. Like, how is that not obvious?

Rubbish. TW are protected often in separate wings.bthe difference her will be these wings will be in the men's prison where they always should have been.

I see you took down the post with the Twitter link which is fair enough. And thank you for linking it. One odd thing about it, the 3 addresses were in the same location, but as far as I'm aware one of the women is somewhere else, far away in the countryside I thought - so they might be a) made up addresses or b) trying to target someone else.

So you are celebrating society moving backwards? The comments here are ridiculous.

Have any of you wondered why trans women were moved to women’s prisons in the first place? It wasn’t because people campaigned for it or any ‘trans rights’. It was because the prison guards were sick of having to clean up the mess after they were attacked constantly. All this does is create a bigger problem in the prison population for woefully under staffed and under paid prison guards.

Okay, maybe shortcomings or inadequacies is a better term than failings, because its built in, its not really a functional failing

To be honest it exposes the enormous failings of the DBS system, top of which IMHO is the false sense of security it offers.

Criminals are notoriously honest right

It would be laughable if it wasn't so serious. Please tell me there are other markers on the police databases and other records when a person changes their name? Ive lost all faith at this stage that vulnerable and children are being protected by the DBS system.

Criminals are notoriously honest right

I was thinking that after I posted. It's still a v harmful indimidating act towards women. Also those addresses are they real but belonging to other people? Enough crackpots around to cause a nuisance or worse.

If a person has a GRC they can request a special sensitive route for a DBS check. This means their previous name wont be disclosed.

The disclosure rule is that if you have had to enquire about somebody's sex or GRC status it is illegal to share that info outwith relevant circs.

Its been a.while since I checked the details so would double check this hasn't changed.

The argument given was that as long as the person applying is honest about any previous names, all should be fine.