Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Update on the puberty blockers trial

137 replies

Hoardasurass · 19/06/2026 14:53

They're going ahead with the puberty blockers trial and it will be open to girls as young as 11 and boys from 12. So it looks like we're going to have to fight again to stop this eugenics campaign of sterilising predominantly gay and autistic children

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/4b3e2839923e3d87

Girls as young as 11 set to be handed puberty blockers

Experiment revived despite potential ‘long-term biological harms’

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/4b3e2839923e3d87

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
Imdunfer · 23/06/2026 09:30

I don't believe it is possible to conduct this trial ethically because you cannot know if the child would have changed their mind once they had gone through puberty.

I believe this is a reaction to the fact that parents are breaking the law importing these drugs, as that is effectively what Cass is saying in that article.

If parents want to harm their own children that's one thing. For the state to do it for them is quite another.

RoyalCorgi · 23/06/2026 09:28

One of the biggest drivers behind all this has been WPATH and the pretence that its guidelines are evidence-based and represent some kind of agreed, universal standard of best care.

Glinner has an excellent piece today about WPATH's lies, and the infiltration of those lies into gender clinics worldwide:

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/they-knew

There is no medical case for puberty blockers. None at all. Gender medicine is completely fraudulent, and gender doctors have caused irreversible physical and psychological harm to thousands of children.

They knew

And they did it anyway.. The FTC case that will end the trans movement

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/they-knew

Shortshriftandlethal · 23/06/2026 09:24

In time, in history..... people will look back at the trans phenomena and recognise that it took hold at a time in Western society when Individualism and an excessive focus on personal feelings was at its peak. When it was all about " being your best or true self": when individual self definition and personal expression was the supreme value.

It will also be seen to have arisen in response to technological and medical innovations - in which surgeries and pharmaceuticals as well as transhumanist fantasies took to the stage - in pursuit of the idea that we could "be anything we want to be"; we could rise above our human nature; that we were not our bodies; that we were, somehow, disembodied beings imprisoned in a "meat suit", not of our choosing. A sort of appeal to the transcendent urge that exists in all human beings, but one that arrived at a certain point in time in response to the social and cultural movements of that time.

Llamasarellovely · 23/06/2026 09:23

The thing is, some parents are insane enough to think their little Johnny should be Johanna, and as things stand, they will go off to the HW butchery and source the drugs.
The only bright spot I see in this is that when it is shown the PBs cause harm, rather than just 'no clear benefit', maybe that would be sufficient to stop some of them doing that in the future?
Some kids are going to get harmed, maybe this way it might be fewer longer term? I kind of wondered if that is what Cass has been hinting at.

BeMoreBear · 23/06/2026 09:21

I wonder who will be Health Secretary now, and might this change the direction of travel for the trial?

Wishesandhorses · 23/06/2026 09:10

Seethlaw · 23/06/2026 07:50

he was completely silent on how they will be able to select the tiny minority who will remain trans into adulthood?

Because in trans ideology, it doesn't matter. Any number of sacrificed non-trans kids is worth it for even one "true trans" kid to be treated. Self-centeredness is the name of the game.

That.

We sacrifice the kids who would have grown up ok, because the tiny number of special higher caste humans benefit.

We sacrifice women because a small number of special higher caste men 'benefit', although at that point 'benefit' becomes a really dodgy word.

And that this is not going to end well for anyone, those special caste people included, doesn't seem to be a reason to pause and think.

Shortshriftandlethal · 23/06/2026 08:39

The truth is there is no such thing as 'true trans'. People have regrets about surgical transition at all ages, and even into their later years - and many come to desist altogether; some going to quite extreme measures to have reconstructed genitalia ( See Netflix documentary: 'Regretters')

Nobody is the opposite sex to that which they are. That is a simple fact. A lot of time, effort and emotional bandwidth goes into assuming a cross sex identity - it does not come naturally. If it was natural you wouldn't need to take drugs; have radical surgeries, or go out of your way to present in such a considered way. You wouldn't need to demand 'pronouns' or special treatement. Nobody would doubt or question your actual sex.

Feelings and self image are not, and never will be, an objective measure of your identity as a human being, for the reason that identity only makes sense in a social context. It requires an acknowledgement or recognition from other people, and from society at large. Sex is fundamental to the organisation of human societies on Planet Earth. It is not something you get to choose.

Seethlaw · 23/06/2026 07:50

Signalbox · 23/06/2026 07:44

I just watched the parliament debate. It was infuriating. The whole system is clearly captured by ideologues. The health sec kept saying that he accepts that most children will resolve their gender issues when they go through puberty but he was completely silent on how they will be able to select the tiny minority who will remain trans into adulthood?

he was completely silent on how they will be able to select the tiny minority who will remain trans into adulthood?

Because in trans ideology, it doesn't matter. Any number of sacrificed non-trans kids is worth it for even one "true trans" kid to be treated. Self-centeredness is the name of the game.

Signalbox · 23/06/2026 07:49

Hoardasurass · 22/06/2026 23:42

Please don't equate antibiotics with the contraceptive pill and puberty blockers. Antibiotics are quite literally lifesaving unlike the others, if a dr says a child has an infection that requires antibiotics then that child's life is at risk if they don't get them

To be fair, there is a big issue with antibiotics being over-prescribed often under pressure from patients or parents of patients and for conditions which have no hope of being resolved with a dose of antibiotics. Plus, whilst they can be lifesaving they can also do a lot of harm when mis-used.

Signalbox · 23/06/2026 07:44

I just watched the parliament debate. It was infuriating. The whole system is clearly captured by ideologues. The health sec kept saying that he accepts that most children will resolve their gender issues when they go through puberty but he was completely silent on how they will be able to select the tiny minority who will remain trans into adulthood?

QldGCandproud · 23/06/2026 06:35

KkkIt · 19/06/2026 20:27

This might be a different view than many but I might not have a problem with girls as young as 11 (providing any physiological risks can be minimised) but would be concerned about girls as old as 14 being kept in suspended animation
Puberty does start earlier - and some of thosd children most vulnerable to gender ideology may not be emotionally or intellectually ready for it. So I can see a value in the original idea of just creating a delay till the mind catches up with the body. So long as the next step is normal puberty not cross sex hormones.
With that in mind I wonder whether what is needed is not a minimum age but a maximum one - say 12 to 13 for girls, 14 to15 for boys. Or whatever age is agreed as appropriate by knowledgeable people with no pro trans bias.

But that is assuming that all the associated brain and skeletal development just picks up where it left off and I'm not sure that they are certain this happens. It scares me that these kids must somehow remain in an immature psychosocial state while getting chronologically older, so that they remain behind their peers throughout that critical stage of adolescence where social development changes rapidly. How do they catch up with that? They might have been on puberty blockers since say 11, so do they remain developmentally 11-ish (?) until they transition to cross sex hormones, let's say at 17-18, and then go through a chemically induced "puberty" (of the wrong sex) while all thier friends have been through a normal adolescence, and spent a few years developing normally so that there is this invisible psychosocial maturity gap that means they will never really be on the same wavelength as their peers? How does it work? Do we even know? So do they start adulthood years behind thier actual age, and then because they have multiple health problems they are disadvantaged again, and then there is the fact that no-one wants to acknowledge which is that the majority of people won't buy into the premise that they have changed sex, so they will be marginalised and angry for the rest of thier lives. Sounds like a nightmare.

Hoardasurass · 22/06/2026 23:42

Gerri1992 · 22/06/2026 21:40

I have to disagree with "It's not normal ethical practice to give children drugs for their mental health that we have reason to believe will damage their physical health or fertility or cognition in later life."
That is true for boys but not for girls.
We put lots of teen girls and younger on the pill as a mental health treatment - for mood swings, for being overly tearful etc. Some GPs even now refuse to consider antidepressants until multiple versions of hormonal contraception have been tried, in case it is all down to puberty hormone swings.
This happened to me, and it definitely damaged my long term physical and mental health.
We need to be much more vigilant about what drugs are given to kids across the board, and to demand more trials for the commonly used drugs (like contraception, antibiotics etc) being used at young age groups.

Please don't equate antibiotics with the contraceptive pill and puberty blockers. Antibiotics are quite literally lifesaving unlike the others, if a dr says a child has an infection that requires antibiotics then that child's life is at risk if they don't get them

OP posts:
GCScot · 22/06/2026 22:54

Seethlaw · 22/06/2026 19:41

Ha! You are a heretic 😁

I'm already a religious heretic after rejecting my childhood and youth church, so I might as well keep going 😂

Do you think it is a conscious realisation amongst TRAs that it is 'us Vs them'? It does seem like it to me.

Well, we know that some very powerful and influencing people have set it up that way for sure, going right after women's rights. So yeah, I do think that some TRAs are consciously aware of it, and quite a few others subconsciously act on it. The misogyny coming off from so many TRAs is probably a mix of personal inclination and taught anti-women ideological beliefs.

Whereas I think the young women I know who see themselves as trans allies genuinely don't think there IS any clash between TRA demands and women's rights. They seem to genuinely think women like JK Rowling are just nasty bigots

True. I would say that it's because feminism has become the omnicause, defending everything and anything - except women's rights. Women's rights in Western countries are acquired, you know? They are set in stone, there's no need to fight for them anymore (abortion in the US being the one marked exception.) Now feminism is about defending all the other minorities, and most especially trans people. So women like JKR are out-of-touch dinosaurs, who hail from a defunct era of feminism, and end up fighting against modern feminism.

I think you're right that there has been a complacency within feminism thinking that the battle for women's rights is already won

Also, intersectionality meaning that just being a woman wasn't seen as 'enough' of an oppression. So you can get bollocks like Amnesty claiming that transwomen are the most oppressed kind of woman, and a whole load of feminists just nod along

GCScot · 22/06/2026 22:44

Seethlaw · 22/06/2026 19:41

Ha! You are a heretic 😁

I'm already a religious heretic after rejecting my childhood and youth church, so I might as well keep going 😂

Do you think it is a conscious realisation amongst TRAs that it is 'us Vs them'? It does seem like it to me.

Well, we know that some very powerful and influencing people have set it up that way for sure, going right after women's rights. So yeah, I do think that some TRAs are consciously aware of it, and quite a few others subconsciously act on it. The misogyny coming off from so many TRAs is probably a mix of personal inclination and taught anti-women ideological beliefs.

Whereas I think the young women I know who see themselves as trans allies genuinely don't think there IS any clash between TRA demands and women's rights. They seem to genuinely think women like JK Rowling are just nasty bigots

True. I would say that it's because feminism has become the omnicause, defending everything and anything - except women's rights. Women's rights in Western countries are acquired, you know? They are set in stone, there's no need to fight for them anymore (abortion in the US being the one marked exception.) Now feminism is about defending all the other minorities, and most especially trans people. So women like JKR are out-of-touch dinosaurs, who hail from a defunct era of feminism, and end up fighting against modern feminism.

I'm already a religious heretic after rejecting my childhood and youth church, so I might as well keep going 😂

Same! I also was brought up in a religious household and am an atheist as an adult

I really do see a lot of similarities between gender ideology and religion. For example, the belief that de-transitioners were "never true trans" = Calvin's "persistence of the saints" (true believers are predestined to be saved, so anyone who loses their religious belief never had genuine faith in the first place)

GCScot · 22/06/2026 22:34

impossibletoday · 22/06/2026 20:45

Strange how the puberty blocker trial seems to be the most popular of the Cass report recommendations. Presumably because it's the one that gives a veil of science and respectability to gender ideology

Gerri1992 · 22/06/2026 21:40

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 22/06/2026 14:21

Dr Cass might be right that there may be some children who are not going to change their minds no matter what.

But if that is true, there is still no way at all to identify who those children are. It doesn't matter what an 11 year old says or does, there is still a very high chance they will feel differently a decade or two later, if not less.

And even if that was true, even if there was a way to know that a child wouldn't change their mind later or would still be dysphoric years later, you would still have to weigh that up against the physical, medical and cognitive downsides of transition. This is a medical treatment - be that puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones or surgery - which creates an adult who is less healthy than they would have been if you had not intervened. I cannot see what benefit there is to any child that outweighs those downsides over the years. It's not normal ethical practice to give children drugs for their mental health that we have reason to believe will damage their physical health or fertility or cognition in later life.

At the very least the data linkage study needs to be completed and show that the long-term harms are not that serious and that there are some real benefits. Though I worry that it will turn out that so many young people have been lost to follow-up, and so much information lost to poor record keeping, that it may never be possible to draw any conclusions from it.

I have to disagree with "It's not normal ethical practice to give children drugs for their mental health that we have reason to believe will damage their physical health or fertility or cognition in later life."
That is true for boys but not for girls.
We put lots of teen girls and younger on the pill as a mental health treatment - for mood swings, for being overly tearful etc. Some GPs even now refuse to consider antidepressants until multiple versions of hormonal contraception have been tried, in case it is all down to puberty hormone swings.
This happened to me, and it definitely damaged my long term physical and mental health.
We need to be much more vigilant about what drugs are given to kids across the board, and to demand more trials for the commonly used drugs (like contraception, antibiotics etc) being used at young age groups.

IwantToRetire · 22/06/2026 20:55

Children as young as six on gender care waiting list
More than 250 primary age children in line for treatment at NHS clinics, figures reveal
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/06/22/children-young-as-six-gender-care-waiting-list/

Also at https://archive.is/doM6s

HenriettaSwanLeavitt · 22/06/2026 20:43

Seethlaw · 22/06/2026 20:21

Heh. Not saying that's necessarily the case for your family member (though she certainly fits the profile), but some feminists have adopted being pro-Muslim as one of their causes. Which obviously leaves them in some very awkward position when the treatment of women at the hands of Islamist regimes is mentioned...

I think that she would show the same lack of interest, sadly. She is not women-centred politically, despite being a 'feminist'.

Hoardasurass · 22/06/2026 20:36

lcakethereforeIam · 22/06/2026 11:48

As much as tras say trans people have always been here the trans child is brand spanking new. I think the only evidence, prior to about 10-15 years ago, is the largely unfalsifiable assertions of older, adult (usually) men. Often approaching retirement or older. Claiming that they felt they were the wrong sex since...insert age when a sexual fetish would be unlikely to manifest. Thus sanitising the whole thing.

I wonder if Cass has swallowed it because she cannot believe that medics, like herself, would be so gullible, would do what they've done to children for no reason that stands up to scrutiny. It would discredit a huge chunk of her profession. I don't think she could take that step. Muddying the waters are the infinitesimal number of children who are now genuinely dysphoric. I suspect in many of them the problems they're suffering wouldn't have manifested as dysphoria if they'd never heard the word.

Thats not exactly true. There was "trans children" however they were seen as suffering from body dismorphia and it was considered a system of underlying mental health issues and was only ever treated with watchful waiting therapy and was never affirmed

OP posts:
Hoardasurass · 22/06/2026 20:24

nutmeg7 · 22/06/2026 08:00

Keeping them off social media might help with the social contagion aspect.

Although not from transhausen parents who don’t want a gender non-conforming or gay child.

eta It’s a bloody stupid notion that this can be done ethically, and I think Cass backed herself into a corner by giving a sop to activists in the report.

Edited

Of from Scottish schools or the charity sector

OP posts:
Seethlaw · 22/06/2026 20:21

HenriettaSwanLeavitt · 22/06/2026 20:09

@Seethlaw True. I would say that it's because feminism has become the omnicause, defending everything and anything - except women's rights.

I was chatting with a very 'progressive' US family member at the weekend, who truly believes that she is a feminist. She was very vocal about how wrong Trump's war with Iran is (and I agreed with her there) but she was blissfully unaware of the plight of women in Iran and not really interested in engaging with the topic when I tried to explore it. She uses feminism as a weapon to wield against the Right, and that's its only purpose for her.

Edited

Heh. Not saying that's necessarily the case for your family member (though she certainly fits the profile), but some feminists have adopted being pro-Muslim as one of their causes. Which obviously leaves them in some very awkward position when the treatment of women at the hands of Islamist regimes is mentioned...

HenriettaSwanLeavitt · 22/06/2026 20:09

@Seethlaw True. I would say that it's because feminism has become the omnicause, defending everything and anything - except women's rights.

I was chatting with a very 'progressive' US family member at the weekend, who truly believes that she is a feminist. She was very vocal about how wrong Trump's war with Iran is (and I agreed with her there) but she was blissfully unaware of the plight of women in Iran and not really interested in engaging with the topic when I tried to explore it. She uses feminism as a weapon to wield against the Right, and that's its only purpose for her.

Seethlaw · 22/06/2026 19:41

GCScot · 22/06/2026 19:05

Which is funny, because they obviously see themselves as the liberal ones, and me as the bigoted one :P

Ha! You are a heretic 😁

Do you think it is a conscious realisation amongst TRAs that it is 'us Vs them'? It does seem like it to me. Whereas I think the young women I know who see themselves as trans allies genuinely don't think there IS any clash between TRA demands and women's rights. They seem to genuinely think women like JK Rowling are just nasty bigots

Ha! You are a heretic 😁

I'm already a religious heretic after rejecting my childhood and youth church, so I might as well keep going 😂

Do you think it is a conscious realisation amongst TRAs that it is 'us Vs them'? It does seem like it to me.

Well, we know that some very powerful and influencing people have set it up that way for sure, going right after women's rights. So yeah, I do think that some TRAs are consciously aware of it, and quite a few others subconsciously act on it. The misogyny coming off from so many TRAs is probably a mix of personal inclination and taught anti-women ideological beliefs.

Whereas I think the young women I know who see themselves as trans allies genuinely don't think there IS any clash between TRA demands and women's rights. They seem to genuinely think women like JK Rowling are just nasty bigots

True. I would say that it's because feminism has become the omnicause, defending everything and anything - except women's rights. Women's rights in Western countries are acquired, you know? They are set in stone, there's no need to fight for them anymore (abortion in the US being the one marked exception.) Now feminism is about defending all the other minorities, and most especially trans people. So women like JKR are out-of-touch dinosaurs, who hail from a defunct era of feminism, and end up fighting against modern feminism.

Swipe left for the next trending thread