Another victory! For Women Scotland v Scottish Ministers in prisons case

There were lots around on Reddit wondering at our stupidity that now there will be “men” in women’s spaces.

Aren't transmen already in women's prisons? (Please say they are. Lie if you have to. The alternative is unthinkable.) And not causing any kind of problems there?

I actually admire that level of blithe fuckwittery.

Fwiw the vast majority of comments on social media relating to this outcome I would class as 'no shit sherlock'.

Genuinely stupid as per.

Gender is not binary - so what? Prisons and other services are segregated on the basis of sex, not gender.

Yes, transmen who commit crimes, of which there are a miniscule number of as opposed to the prevalence of transwomen who do, should be placed in the female prison estate.

Is that numpty really pushing for transmen to be incarcerated in the male prison estate to suffer the fate of the transmen who was placed on a male mental health ward and brutally raped within an hour of being there?

Their sheer unadulterated hatred of women never fails to show itself.

😂
There's nothing desperate transactivists won't use to try to get their own way.

I'm still taking pleasure from seeing the comprehensive dismantling of the "but mothers with male toddlers in changing rooms mean middle aged men must be allowed in" whine. 😁

To be fair, I did not have this as a gotcha on my bingo card, but it appears to be genuine:

But don't forget the Scotgov's claim that one 'trans' section would mean family having to travel further.

Most trans identifying males are housed in HMP Edinburgh on the wing for vulnerable prisoners.

I'm equally not willing to believe - and I don't think a judge would either - that the SPS and Scots Govt had made absolutely no action plans or preparation as to what they would need to do in the event of the case going against them.

Because that would be utter incompetence.

I'll open the book now on the next whinge being 'but it's too expensive to get a small number of men out of women's prisons and make other arrangements'. That one hasn't had a run around in a few weeks.

First Minister, John Swinney told BBC Scotland Lady Ross's judgement was complex and the government will take time to consider its implications.

It's as clear as day: men cannot be in the women's estate. End of. Make other arrangements.

But yes, the new political way to deny women's rights - sit on legal judgments for over a year while you whine how hard it is to understand (and yet don't find anyone who could explain it to you) and how carefully you're going through it line by line, and carry on ignoring the law. It's about time the voters started trying that one on. 'Oh my tax bill is complicated, I'm going through it and considering it very carefully and I MIGHT get around to doing something about it in a year or two-'

Next court case: accountability for these ridiculous tactics that in essence leave women, quite intentionally, in illegal, discriminatory, distressing and in this case dangerous circumstances while a lot of politicians, predominantly male, try to find a way around having to permit women their legal equality of humanity.

Thank you to those of you who have posted comments that have explained things about the judgement, I always appreciate the clarification comments.

This has been share before but I'm posting it again because if fucking awesome

'We welcome today’s ruling in the Outer House of the Court of Session that the Scottish Prison Service policy on transgender prisoners is unlawful.
For over a decade the SPS has housed some of Scotland’s most violent men in the women’s prison estate. Taking its lead from activists who ‘strategised’ that securing ‘self-identification’ in prisons would pave the way for similar policies in schools, hospitals and other settings, the SPS decided to treat vulnerable female prisoners as collateral damage. Yes they flaming did 😤
It should not have taken unpaid women campaigners years to restore centuries-old protections for female prisoners, and to suffer vilification and abuse for doing so. No it fucking should not have 😡
That Scottish Ministers defended this sexist and regressive policy for so long, and even went to court to do so, leaves a permanent stain on the reputation of every individual politician involved.' Agreed a million time over, you bunch of bastard's🤬

It is truly wonderful to see everything they have acheived by stealth, dismantled piece by piece. And it's not coming back.

James Morton and Steven Whittle: the administrators of the UK trans movement.

Shame on them both. May they live to see everything they've done dismantled.

I suspect it might be this thread:
https://old.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1ua0bxp/transgender_prisoners_should_not_be_held_in/oski9yq/

Didn't JKR offer to support any woman who wished to sue the SPS? There's no excuses now. This could cost the Scottish taxpayer a fortune.

It’s been referenced a lot. ISTR James Morton was at the We’re Still Here conference (I think also 2018) that an undercover MNer sneaked into and reported on, and boasted about it then.

This is Trump level defiance of simply ignoring judgements you don't like.

It's one of the new tactics, isn't it?

The delay changes, obfuscate, plead confusion, argue that it's too difficult, etc., tactic (currently being used in some charitable circles) - and, of course, in political circles and now, apparently, in the prison services.

Indeed.

Honest John is talking pish.

Freedom of Information request.

I have just one question.

How do we know for sure that the men currently in women's prison are being sent back where they belong?

Lady Ross said the guidance was "in conflict with the requirement that prison accommodation be provided separately for men and women" and constituted "a mis-statement of the law".
She said: "In all the circumstances, the prisons guidance is unlawful."

First Minister, John Swinney told BBC Scotland Lady Ross's judgement was complex and the government will take time to consider its implications.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz7502eq5lro

Have we heard this all before? This is Trump level defiance of simply ignoring judgements you don't like.

'We welcome today’s ruling in the Outer House of the Court of Session that the Scottish Prison Service policy on transgender prisoners is unlawful.

For over a decade the SPS has housed some of Scotland’s most violent men in the women’s prison estate. Taking its lead from activists who ‘strategised’ that securing ‘self-identification’ in prisons would pave the way for similar policies in schools, hospitals and other settings, the SPS decided to treat vulnerable female prisoners as collateral damage.

It should not have taken unpaid women campaigners years to restore centuries-old protections for female prisoners, and to suffer vilification and abuse for doing so.

That Scottish Ministers defended this sexist and regressive policy for so long, and even went to court to do so, leaves a permanent stain on the reputation of every individual politician involved.'

Abso fuckin lutely.

I think that that number will rise unfortunately.

I'm not sure if I was aware of this on the time. Not part of FWR then so where else would this have been highlighted:

“We strategized that by working intensively with the Scottish Prison Service to support them to include trans women as women on a self-declaration basis within very challenging circumstances, we would be able to ensure that all other public services should be able to do likewise.”
James Morton, Former Scottish Trans Director in ‘Trans Britain’ (2018) ed. C. Burns