Reforms proposes "Women and Motherhood Protection Act"

I think it would be in our interests to separate out two things:

• discussion of whether we should vote Reform, including, whether their legislative proposals are good things. (Personally I am so convinced I'll never vote Reform that I'm likely to skip those.)
• discussion of the details of proposed legislative changes that a future Reform government might make, especially, what we would most importantly want to campaign to change.

The reason is that I fear that, like it or not, there is quite likely to be a Reform government after the next election, and if so, there will be a very narrow window of time in which lobbying the new, inexperienced swathes of Reform MPs might succeed in influencing what happens. If there are arguments to be had about what we agree or disagree with about their concrete proposals, the sooner we have them, the better.

People thinking someone else will somehow stop a Reform government making major changes are naive, I fear.

I personally detest Farage but what I detest more is that Labour and the Activist System is making him into some sort of fucking hero of the people because they are so intent on implementing their WEF Agenda. Which the UK did not vote for. But it is the same agenda across the Anglosphere.

Instead of just slagging off Farage and Reform, why aren't Labour and their supporters having a good long look at their own policies and thinking about what is driving people away from them?

Why are Labour not trying to work out why support for them has fallen? They should be thinking about what they are doing wrong that makes a right-wing party with regressive views in so many areas look like a better option to their traditional voters than sticking with the party that some of them have supported for decades.

From the Guardian who say it's from a Reform press release:

women will retain the right to receive the same pay for the same work, while ensuring that equal pay law remains focused on genuine cases of pay discrimination rather than allowing courts and tribunals to determine the relative value of fundamentally different occupations

This is not good.

We won the right to equal pay for equivalent work / work of equal value in 1970.

At least they have a history of supporting women in the work place.

Single sex spaces 'protecting' women from a few trans people don't have anywhere near the impact on women in the work place that their denial to its access would.

At least they have a history of supporting women in the work place.

Single sex spaces 'protecting' women from a few trans people don't have anywhere near the impact on women in the work place that their denial to its access would.

I personally detest Farage but what I detest more is that Labour and the Activist System is making him into some sort of fucking hero of the people because they are so intent on implementing their WEF Agenda. Which the UK did not vote for. But it is the same agenda across the Anglosphere.

Instead of just slagging off Farage and Reform, why aren't Labour and their supporters having a good long look at their own policies and thinking about what is driving people away from them?

Why are Labour not trying to work out why support for them has fallen? They should be thinking about what they are doing wrong that makes a right-wing party with regressive views in so many areas look like a better option to their traditional voters than sticking with the party that some of them have supported for decades.

I personally detest Farage but what I detest more is that Labour and the Activist System is making him into some sort of fucking hero of the people because they are so intent on implementing their WEF Agenda. Which the UK did not vote for. But it is the same agenda across the Anglosphere.

Instead of just slagging off Farage and Reform, why aren't Labour and their supporters having a good long look at their own policies and thinking about what is driving people away from them?

Why are Labour not trying to work out why support for them has fallen? They should be thinking about what they are doing wrong that makes a right-wing party with regressive views in so many areas look like a better option to their traditional voters than sticking with the party that some of them have supported for decades.

It doesn't matter anyway, even if Reform did get into government, any attempts to change any legislation will be frustrated by the Civil Service, if legislation did get changed the process will be frustrated by the courts, they could remove any legal aid and rely on crowd funding and even if it did get to a tribunal, or appeal the system will do anything and everything to frustrate everything about it.

They are guilty of not being honest about the nature of the problem. The reason why they want to get rid of various laws is to get rid of the people in the system that will block things changing.

And they cannot be honest about the nature of the problem as Labour and the Civil Service et al will put things in place to stop Reform from being able to make the changes they want to. Like Biden when he gave Faucci a lifelong 'get out of jail free' card from being sued before he left office.

So they are left with pretending they will do X and Y to get people talking about X and Y, whilst secretly planning Z. You can bet whatever they say they will do is a smokescreen.

I personally detest Farage but what I detest more is that Labour and the Activist System is making him into some sort of fucking hero of the people because they are so intent on implementing their WEF Agenda. Which the UK did not vote for. But it is the same agenda across the Anglosphere.

You’re missing the point.

Whether you agree with the outcome of the court case or not the fact that they were able to question it on the basis of Equality is important.

I suspect because Reform's greater project being anti immigration & the fact right wing parties haven’t traditionally been pro women's rights this isn't about improving women's rights but delivering more white babies to 'fend off' the 'brown invasion' & 'cultural armageddon'.

Interestingly, Reform's anti immigration right wing counter part in Australia (One Nation) just announced their 'pro women/ baby' in initiatives with a plan to scrap child care subsidies for tax relief for a partner's taxes if one partner stays home to care for the children.

Put aside that this is all a blatant attempt to keep women careerless & pregnant, but who will replace them? They act as if women aren't necessarycontributors to the country services & its economic growth where their absence will no doubt require increased immigration to cover the loss.

It doesn't matter anyway, even if Reform did get into government, any attempts to change any legislation will be frustrated by the Civil Service, if legislation did get changed the process will be frustrated by the courts, they could remove any legal aid and rely on crowd funding and even if it did get to a tribunal, or appeal the system will do anything and everything to frustrate everything about it.

They are guilty of not being honest about the nature of the problem. The reason why they want to get rid of various laws is to get rid of the people in the system that will block things changing.

And they cannot be honest about the nature of the problem as Labour and the Civil Service et al will put things in place to stop Reform from being able to make the changes they want to. Like Biden when he gave Faucci a lifelong 'get out of jail free' card from being sued before he left office.

So they are left with pretending they will do X and Y to get people talking about X and Y, whilst secretly planning Z. You can bet whatever they say they will do is a smokescreen.

I personally detest Farage but what I detest more is that Labour and the Activist System is making him into some sort of fucking hero of the people because they are so intent on implementing their WEF Agenda. Which the UK did not vote for. But it is the same agenda across the Anglosphere.

There should have been no ability to question why the men and women working in a dusty windowless warehouse should not have been paid more than the men and women working in a bright and airy shop with more socialisation.

It's an utterly mad decision and it's under appeal.

Well the court case determined that they were of equal value and so therefore should have been paid at equal pay rates. Had the law been written “same” instead of “equal” then there would have been no ability to even question the practice let alone have it examined in court. A logical and very foreseeable consequence of changing the wording and removal equality legislations is that companies will be able to have essentially 2 job titles with very similar but not exactly the same job descriptions and 2 pay rates, they would be within the boundaries of the law to do that and pay different rates per job.

I'm inherently cynical, especially having worked with job evaluation schemes in a council, that anyone has the ability to judge when two jobs that are nothing like each other are worth equal pay.

They don’t mention anything about childcare vouchers or nursery places or after school clubs etc. these are a major factor in allowing women to work. But Reform might prefer women to be at home with the kids.

Disingenuous. I replied to you bringing it up:

No. I replied to another commenter bringing it up & you ran with it.

And I simply said why can't we have both. Which as a female person I think is an entirely valid question.

As I already explained exclusion & division isn't in alignment with left wing principles.

How are those left wing principles fitting with their desire for men to be able to access women's spaces (hospital wards, prisons, strip search them, in the refuges, in their rape survivor groups, lesbian groups, women's health groups) with the fact that these women you talk so derisively about for minding about 'a few men' are often:

disabled
victims of VAWG
from varied faiths
varied cultures

?

Politically, the left were supposed to be the ones who cared about such groups, who had social responsibility, who were the champions of inclusion, equality, tolerance, multiculturalism. Not racist, xenophobic, ableist, homophobic or misogynist, but you seem to feel that right thinking women are. And modelling how to dismiss and dehumanise those women from those groups. Destroying women and gay rights in the Equality Act for example would leave those women not with third spaces and careful policies to meet their needs as with trans people, but just excluded from public life altogether, presumably with your attitude of 'and they deserve it' (for being different to the righteous.)

I find it increasingly difficult to put a sheet of paper between Reform - we want to destroy the equality act because it gives people inconvenient protections and stops us being racist/xenophobic/religious intolerant/ableist/homophobic/misogynist

and Labour/Lib dem/Green - we want to destroy the equality act because it gives people inconvenient protections and stops us being racist/xenophobic/religious intolerant/ableist/misogynist

Two cheeks: same arse.