Guardian: weaponised emotional blackmail from 14yo 'trans' athlete

I'll ask again, since you seem to have missed the question:

This whole trans thing only works if you
decide "girl" is really a type of mind.

Do you really think that?

That the fundamental defining difference betwen boys and girls, men and women, isn't the fact we simply have different bodies but that we have different types of minds?

So different in fact that this difference overrides the very stark and obvious differences of physical sex such that actually being male or female, with all that comes with it physically and socially especially for those of us who are physically female, is less significant than whether a person thinks like "a boy" or "a girl"?

Because that is where your beliefs go. So please, let's have some clear eyed honesty. Do you believe in different types of mind for men and women, or not?

In that case, how about you believe me and the other posters who say we say we are not fucking 'cis'.

"Opinion is being presented as fact. Disagreement is becoming ridicule. What masquerades as dialogue is amounting to something closer to public shaming."

Masquerading is apropos, it is a shame that boys keep stealing girls identity. His sister should have won and would have done if she hadn't of had to compete against a male cheat.

“She” is saving up for a procedure. We’re not told which procedure but it does mean this person has an intact penis. That makes them male.

And I don’t want any man in my changing room, especially if he has a working penis.

I'm not denying anyone anything, and Britain follows the Christian calendar and has Christian ways, as I outlined above. The fact that some people practice paganism doesn't mean that we are not, broadly, a Christian society in ways and customs, if not churchgoing and prayer. Why else is everything closed on Christmas Day?

OK, I looked it up. I see that that's a transwoman working at a YMCA pool in America, and the complainant is a ciswoman who doesn't like her being employed in the changing rooms. The worker is saving up for her procedures. There's nothing to say she isn't genuine. If the complainant is against transwomen then of course she would say that the worker was looking at the girls. If there's an agenda, it's harder to take her word for it. I'd need to see CCTV footage of the worker working to make that call.

I think "between A levels and Uni" certainly describes a lot of our current crop of new posters 😂

Do you have the faintest idea what this thread is about?

The fact that those other genders exist doesn't take away from the existence of AFAB people.

If something exists then it's a material reality and there's proof that it exists, what proof do you have that gender exists.

The data shows 'gender' is an academic construct, it's a framework for an ideology called Queer Theory, it's an intellectual abstract, it doesn't exist in reality. Just because people 'believe' it doesn't make it so. People believe the Earth is flat, but it's been proven not to be.
The word boy is in the Oxford dictionary as well, it's definition is human, adolescent, male, which is what this boy is.

Maybe check your history. On these shores we’ve been celebrating the winter solstice and the spring equinox for millennia. Christianity adopted our festivals so we would follow their religion.

But men can marry men now and women can marry women. Women are not shamed for having children without being married and ai don’t have to swear on a bible in court or get married in a church.

And good on you for denying your sisters the right to safety, privacy and dignity, You must be so proud.

Obviously the nasty, mean and abusive comments aimed at the author of this article are unacceptable. Civility is always necessary, and abuse is never acceptable. But that isn't relevant to trans issues in particular. It applies everywhere and doesn't alter facts about biology one iota.

The article really annoyed me when I read it earlier. The author isn't female. I don't mind referring to her as 'she' and 'her' if that makes her feel better, but whether you are male or female is determined by chromosomes not feelings.

I wish everyone could feel like the sex they are. I feel sorry for those who don't, and wish I could help. But I can't.

If you have male chromosomes, you shouldn't compete in women only sports. My sympathy towards trans people who feel differently doesn't change that.

Oh, BTW @DumpyVictoria I absolutely most (young) trans people are who they say they are.

I just think they are wrong in assuming that who they are has anything to do with actually being the opposite sex.

It's all just their own sexist ideas about what is and is not ok for each sex, projected outwards onto other people.

Coming back to the article: "Opinion is being presented as fact. Disagreement is becoming ridicule. What masquerades as dialogue is amounting to something closer to public shaming."

This could basically be the Guardian's masthead these days.

This is what we're up against 🙄

Jesus, you really are that sexist aren't you?

Tell me, what do these hormones that make a person "really" the opposite do?

I assume (at least I hope!) you don't think they make male people bad at maths and like pink or something equally sexist, so tell me what is the actual, practical difference between a male person who got the boy brain hormone and a male person who got the girl brain hormone?

What is the meaningful observable quality that is different between them such that means the latter is a girl rather than a boy outside his own head as well as inside it?

I'm still stuck on @DumpyVictoria thinking that ethnicity is just a matter of skin colour... That level of reductive thinking is, to my mind, racist.

And on the whole 'assigned' bullshit. When I was born the midwife took one look and said, 'Girl.'
And funnily enough, can you believe it, she was right.

No, because they are criminals.

Re. your last para - sorry if I gave the impression that I'm trans. I'm a ciswoman.

Why wouldn't we believe them? Yes, sadly there have been some bad actors, but that doesn't mean all trans people are lying.

And actually, you are pretty much forced to live in a Christian way, because Christian ways are the bedrock of our society. To step outside those ways is to receive harsh legal and/or social retribution. Unlike many non-Christian societies, marriage is between one man and one woman (not one man and up to four women); and we frown on adultery. We celebrate Easter and Christmas with time off work whether we want it or not. Almost everyone who isn't a religion that doesn't celebrate Christmas celebrates it even if they don't believe in God. So, you ARE being forced to live as a follower of God.

You believe intact male rapists who say they are women and should be locked up with vulnerable women, @DumpyVictoria?

Yet all the testing still gives male biological results, even if they are men taking female hormones.

Show me the scientific paper proving otherwise.

I'm not familiar with all the points of law on this, and I can't tell what country that person is from.

I think it's a matter of hormones and brain chemistry rather than thinking. Trans women tend to talk about FEELING as if they're female, rather than THINKING themselves into it.

Oh, well that’s all right then!

If they are who they say they are, then we should believe them!

Just like some people believe in a God that I don’t believe exists. Except I am not then obliged to also believe in their God, or follow their religion’s rules.

Whereas I AM forced to say whether my “gender identity” that I don’t have or believe in, is the same as the sex I was “assigned” at birth. No. I am a woman. I do not have a gender identity. My sex was observed at birth and my body developed and is still developing well into my menopause, along the expected female pathway.

If you want to dress in skirts and wear pigtails and makeup, that’s just a costume. But the second you take away the protections I have as a woman, you are in the wrong,

And I have a question. If you want protection from men by not being in the men’s changing rooms or toilets because you identify as trans, why don’t you campaign for your own spaces? So that women are safe from men and trans identifying people are also safe from men?

No, because those are crimes, and feeling that you're a woman even if AMAB is not a crime, is it?

To do that, you must also believe the thing that makes men and women different is how we think. That some ways of thinking are right for men but wrong for women, and vice versa?

Do you really believe that?

Because I think it's shockingly sexist.

But maybe you really do think that.

If you do, can you as a self-defined "cis" woman please share some of the ways of thinking that make a person a woman rather than a man?