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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Guardian: weaponised emotional blackmail from 14yo 'trans' athlete

589 replies

teawamutu · 17/06/2026 17:40

The Guardian's rearguard action on reality continues. Apparently the problem is not the parents and authorities who conspired to lie to this boy, coddle his delusions, disadvantage all girls around him in the service of his own wishful thinking etc etc etc: it's definitely the people who pointed it out:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jun/17/trans-athlete-no-one-should-face-vicious-attacks

I am prepared to feel a little sorry for the kid, who couldn't have been exposed like this if the useful idiots around him had done their fucking jobs. But the Grauniad can fuck off with the tired 'beee kiiiind' shit as a solution. Been there, binned the t-shirt. We want our shit back.

I’m a 14-year-old trans athlete. No one should face the vicious attacks I have faced | Lina Haaga

People understand gender differently, and I was taught to respect all ideas. But the vitriol I recently experienced was not a healthy debate

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jun/17/trans-athlete-no-one-should-face-vicious-attacks

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RedToothBrush · 18/06/2026 08:25

TheKeatingFive · 18/06/2026 08:17

This is the most shocking point of the whole thing to me.

Imagine doing this to your daughter?

How much would you have to value boys above girls to behave like this to your own child?

These parents are seriously messed up.

You can't treat the 'sisters' as equal as one is always the 'special' girl.

EdithStourton · 18/06/2026 08:24

DumpyVictoria · 17/06/2026 21:44

Not OK. And he's not a biological male. Having a penis doesn't necessarily mean you are a biological male.

😂😂
I think, from what I have read, that all bar a minuscule minority of those with a penis are biologically and genetically male (I seem to remember that there is one DSD where the genetics are female but the appearance is male). DSDs have nothing to do with trans.

TheKeatingFive · 18/06/2026 08:17

RedToothBrush · 18/06/2026 08:08

This.

She's never front and center. It will have always been about her brother. Even this race illustrates the point perfectly. She was denied the praise and reward she had EARNED.

This is the most shocking point of the whole thing to me.

Imagine doing this to your daughter?

How much would you have to value boys above girls to behave like this to your own child?

These parents are seriously messed up.

RedToothBrush · 18/06/2026 08:14

I strongly believe there ARE cases where your body and brain do not match up.

Congratulations. You are sexist. And don't recognise that if someone feels like this, it's not for other people to enable. It's not their job to fix. They need therapy and to understand that their brain is just misfiring because you can not change sex no matter how much you want to and no matter what lengths you go to to modify your body.

This is not the burden of women to bare.

RedToothBrush · 18/06/2026 08:11

Soontobe60 · 18/06/2026 07:36

People who claim to be trans make up around 0.01% of the population. You’re not one of them. Females make up 51% of the population. You say you’re female.
As you are not ‘trans’, you’re only going on the say so of 0.01% of the population who are, and ignoring the 51% of the population whom you are part of when it comes to determining what constitutes a trans identity. You know what a female is because you are one. Not because someone has to tell you what one is. It’s your material reality!

One male declaring he's trans can harm the privacy, dignity, wellbeing, opportunity, access to services and mental health of thousands of women he may potentially come across during the course of his life.

It doesn't matter if there are 'only a few' - it's about the scale of impact.

RedToothBrush · 18/06/2026 08:08

DeanElderberry · 18/06/2026 07:47

I very much appreciate @DumpyVictoria using the forms 'transgirl' and 'transwoman'. Much less confusing and ambiguous than the two-word version.

If that boy was encouraged in this nonsense since early childhood I feel a bit sorry for him, but he's now of an age where rebelling against parental control is normal so its time for him to grow up. Religious fundamentalist households are always hard on their children, but survivable.

And I'm much much more sorry for his sister, how horrible to have to grow up in a household where she had to accept constant lies.

This.

She's never front and center. It will have always been about her brother. Even this race illustrates the point perfectly. She was denied the praise and reward she had EARNED.

RedToothBrush · 18/06/2026 08:06

EvieBB · 18/06/2026 01:45

If he really feels he is a girl.....and he still feels like that 10 years down the line then it's not just a phase and it's not nonsense.

Except it isn't something that is real. It's still a delusion you should not affirm without pointing out sex. Because sex still matters no matter how much you try to deny it doesn't. Cos biology.

EmpressaurusKitty · 18/06/2026 08:01

Thankfully my two DDs are girly girls and love being girls and feel like girls etc.

People say this, & also about Shiloh Jolie-Pitt eventually becoming very feminine, but I think that makes it even more important to reinforce that the ‘non-girly girls’ who live in trousers, have short hair & like sport & DIY are just as much girls as the ones into long hair, makeup & dresses. Shiloh would still be just as much a girl if she’d kept wearing suits.

My cat identifies as an elephant.

Guardian: weaponised emotional blackmail from 14yo 'trans' athlete
DeanElderberry · 18/06/2026 07:47

I very much appreciate @DumpyVictoria using the forms 'transgirl' and 'transwoman'. Much less confusing and ambiguous than the two-word version.

If that boy was encouraged in this nonsense since early childhood I feel a bit sorry for him, but he's now of an age where rebelling against parental control is normal so its time for him to grow up. Religious fundamentalist households are always hard on their children, but survivable.

And I'm much much more sorry for his sister, how horrible to have to grow up in a household where she had to accept constant lies.

Menier · 18/06/2026 07:44

EvieBB · 18/06/2026 01:07

Do you think so? Did his parents lie to him though? Maybe they just allowed him to feel however he felt...and over the years those feelings didn't change.
I don't know....
I think kids tend to know their own minds by the age of about 10 so if he still felt like a girl, perhaps he really was born in the wrong body.
I do think it's entirely possible you can have a difrently gendered brain that doesn't align with your physical genetics.
Having said that, I also feel strongly for the rights of women.
I feel that there should be separate toilets and chaning room spaces for 'transgenders'.
I certainly don't agree that biological boys should be allowed to compete against girls (however they feel inside). Absolutely unfair to women.
Thankfully my two DDs are girly girls and love being girls and feel like girls etc.
But if this was different I would have kept an open mind and not 'affirmed' anything either way - I would just let my child be themselves...and see how things developed for them. ...I would wait and see if it was a phase or not....so hopefully I wouldn't have influenced them either way...just allowed them to work things out for themselves. I don't think we give kids sufficient credit for knowing their own minds.
Just my opinion...just a thought...

Do you realise that what you are saying here would make you a bigot in the eyes of some?
Thats what women at the sharp end of this 'debate' are having to endure.

Soontobe60 · 18/06/2026 07:36

DumpyVictoria · 17/06/2026 21:55

I'm not forcing anything on anyone. I'm free to use whatever words I choose to. As are you. And I'm not offended. I just think that trans identities are real. You don't. They are just opinions, since none of us can know, if we are not a trans person ourselves.

People who claim to be trans make up around 0.01% of the population. You’re not one of them. Females make up 51% of the population. You say you’re female.
As you are not ‘trans’, you’re only going on the say so of 0.01% of the population who are, and ignoring the 51% of the population whom you are part of when it comes to determining what constitutes a trans identity. You know what a female is because you are one. Not because someone has to tell you what one is. It’s your material reality!

QldGCandproud · 18/06/2026 07:25

EvieBB · 18/06/2026 07:07

You don't have to be a scientist to have empathy believe that some kids feel suicidal because they truly feel their bodies and brains don't align 🙄

But that's not what you said, you said "Because skin colour is purely a matter of melanin. Gender is much more complex than that and involves hormones, brain chemistry, brain structure, and the intersection of all those things with psychology".

I'm very keen to read the science behind skin colour just being purely about melanin (seems a bit dismissive of entire cultures and ancestry just quietly), and how this inner gender interacts with "brain chemistry" and structure and stuff.

On the topic of biology, I'm also quite keen to hear what transactivists make of recent research that shows the cellular history that is stored throughout the matralinial line, i.e. where mothers retain some of the cells of their offspring for their entire lives, and also the profound yet barely understood interaction between a baby's growth and the quality and nutrient components of mothers breastmilk over time. And, I can't remember the exact details (not a biologist, just friends with one) but isn't there some circumstance where a woman, maybe following pregnancy, can't donate blood to men because it causes some kind of potentially fatal reaction?

But yeah, he is a girl 'cause of "brain chemistry" and "psychology", sure.

Elbreth · 18/06/2026 07:24

EvieBB · 18/06/2026 06:55

Why? I strongly believe there ARE cases where your body and brain do not match up. Even historical texts show that - most notably Indian texts.
Why is it misogynistic for you body and brain to not be aligned? What an odd thing to say. It's just a fact. It's physiology. All sorts of "mistakes" can happen when the embryo is forming.

I went to school with a 'girl' who was intersex .....she literally had a cross between a penis and a clitoris. Shit happens. Rarely of course. But it happens. You could clearly see she was neither a boy or a girl but chose to wear a skirt and identify as female (and had a female partner after leaving school). I knew this because I was friends with her brother.
FWIW I still strongly believe in safe spaces for women and do not think that biological males should be able to compete alongside women

I strongly believe there ARE cases where your body and brain do not match up.

That is because you have strongly ingrained and inaccurate views of how people in a certain body should feel, think, behave. Instead why not imagine a boy who wants to display behaviours labelled as "feminine" and no-one feeding him the bullshit that he cannot or should not. He can have the sexed body he has and also be himself. What, then, doesn't "match" and why does he need to pretend changing biological sex is a thing?

Seethlaw · 18/06/2026 07:22

EvieBB · 18/06/2026 06:55

Why? I strongly believe there ARE cases where your body and brain do not match up. Even historical texts show that - most notably Indian texts.
Why is it misogynistic for you body and brain to not be aligned? What an odd thing to say. It's just a fact. It's physiology. All sorts of "mistakes" can happen when the embryo is forming.

I went to school with a 'girl' who was intersex .....she literally had a cross between a penis and a clitoris. Shit happens. Rarely of course. But it happens. You could clearly see she was neither a boy or a girl but chose to wear a skirt and identify as female (and had a female partner after leaving school). I knew this because I was friends with her brother.
FWIW I still strongly believe in safe spaces for women and do not think that biological males should be able to compete alongside women

Please do not bring DSDs into the trans conversation; this is both appropriation and entirely irrelevant. DSDs are purely a physical disorder; people who have DSDs don't have "a body of one sex and a mind of another", so they have nothing to do with the trans conversation.

Elbreth · 18/06/2026 07:21

DumpyVictoria · 17/06/2026 20:17

Because skin colour is purely a matter of melanin. Gender is much more complex than that and involves hormones, brain chemistry, brain structure, and the intersection of all those things with psychology.

Wow, you're very confused. Do you think race does not intersect with psychology? Do you think race and skin colour are the same thing? Why are you reducing race to "melanin" for the sake of your argument? It is far more complex than that. Rachel Dolezal did not pretend to have darker skin than she does. She pretended to be a black woman. Race is a construct, like gender.
Skin colour is a biological fact, like sex.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 18/06/2026 07:19

EvieBB · 18/06/2026 07:04

Yeah of course that would be crazy! If my 4 yr old said such a thing I would absolutely presume it was just a phase or just a child being a child who didn't yet know themselves.....I would certainly not encourage anything ... BUT if ten years down they were still insisting they had been born in the wrong body and felt suicidal as as result I think I'd have to listen to them....

Better a live 'trans' child than a dead child, right. 🤯

Seethlaw · 18/06/2026 07:18

EvieBB · 18/06/2026 07:04

Yeah of course that would be crazy! If my 4 yr old said such a thing I would absolutely presume it was just a phase or just a child being a child who didn't yet know themselves.....I would certainly not encourage anything ... BUT if ten years down they were still insisting they had been born in the wrong body and felt suicidal as as result I think I'd have to listen to them....

Yeah. Except that's not what happens, is it? That's not what happened in this case, and it's not what happens in the case of all those kids who "discover" it at a very young age, and are encouraged, and taken to a gender clinic at the age of 8 or something. My nightmare is what happens to these kids, so it's no wonder they become suicidal later on.

TheKeatingFive · 18/06/2026 07:17

EvieBB · 18/06/2026 01:07

Do you think so? Did his parents lie to him though? Maybe they just allowed him to feel however he felt...and over the years those feelings didn't change.
I don't know....
I think kids tend to know their own minds by the age of about 10 so if he still felt like a girl, perhaps he really was born in the wrong body.
I do think it's entirely possible you can have a difrently gendered brain that doesn't align with your physical genetics.
Having said that, I also feel strongly for the rights of women.
I feel that there should be separate toilets and chaning room spaces for 'transgenders'.
I certainly don't agree that biological boys should be allowed to compete against girls (however they feel inside). Absolutely unfair to women.
Thankfully my two DDs are girly girls and love being girls and feel like girls etc.
But if this was different I would have kept an open mind and not 'affirmed' anything either way - I would just let my child be themselves...and see how things developed for them. ...I would wait and see if it was a phase or not....so hopefully I wouldn't have influenced them either way...just allowed them to work things out for themselves. I don't think we give kids sufficient credit for knowing their own minds.
Just my opinion...just a thought...

What is a 'gendered brain'?

How did this differently 'gendered brain' finc itself in the 'wrong body'?

Where is the right body?

loislovesstewie · 18/06/2026 07:16

loislovesstewie · 18/06/2026 07:15

'History' also thought that some people were witches, were in league with the devil and could do magic. Now we know that doesn't happen. BTW 3rd sexes in India were actually effeminate men who were allowed to wear female clothing and prostitute themselves. It wasn't done due to concern, it was making use of them, in reality they were despised.

Edited to say intersex isn't used as a term. It's DSD.

loislovesstewie · 18/06/2026 07:15

EvieBB · 18/06/2026 06:55

Why? I strongly believe there ARE cases where your body and brain do not match up. Even historical texts show that - most notably Indian texts.
Why is it misogynistic for you body and brain to not be aligned? What an odd thing to say. It's just a fact. It's physiology. All sorts of "mistakes" can happen when the embryo is forming.

I went to school with a 'girl' who was intersex .....she literally had a cross between a penis and a clitoris. Shit happens. Rarely of course. But it happens. You could clearly see she was neither a boy or a girl but chose to wear a skirt and identify as female (and had a female partner after leaving school). I knew this because I was friends with her brother.
FWIW I still strongly believe in safe spaces for women and do not think that biological males should be able to compete alongside women

'History' also thought that some people were witches, were in league with the devil and could do magic. Now we know that doesn't happen. BTW 3rd sexes in India were actually effeminate men who were allowed to wear female clothing and prostitute themselves. It wasn't done due to concern, it was making use of them, in reality they were despised.

TheKeatingFive · 18/06/2026 07:14

EvieBB · 18/06/2026 07:07

You don't have to be a scientist to have empathy believe that some kids feel suicidal because they truly feel their bodies and brains don't align 🙄

The only reason they feel they their 'bodies and brain don't align' is because people like you have fed them that.

Its natural to feel uncomfortable with aspects of your own body. Telling children that that's because they were born 'wrong' is stupid and dangerous.

SinnerBoy · 18/06/2026 07:09

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 20:14

You hate being referred to as a ciswoman, well, that's how transgirls and transwomen must feel when they're referred to as men.

Cis, in this case, is a confected term, coined by activists, with no meaning in the real world; it's irrelevant and unnecessary.

Trans "girls" and "women" are boys and men, it's accurate and true to describe them thusly. Nobody is required to lie and pretend that TIMs are female, fortunately.

EvieBB · 18/06/2026 07:07

QldGCandproud · 18/06/2026 05:52

Oh, so you're an evolutionary biologist then? Please direct me to one of your most recent publications?

You don't have to be a scientist to have empathy believe that some kids feel suicidal because they truly feel their bodies and brains don't align 🙄

EvieBB · 18/06/2026 07:04

Seethlaw · 18/06/2026 06:46

You know... That's kind of terrifying to me. Because I absolutely was a trans kid, who thought I should have been a boy. And the idea that I might have said so at the age of 4, when I don't remember anything about being 4, and then my entire life would have been completely altered because of something I wouldn't even remember saying... Yeah, it's terrifying. The idea that my mother, my family, my teachers, my doctors, everyone, would have encouraged me to believe that I would grow up to have a male body, that I just had to take pills and then undergo massive surgeries, and I would, one day, finally, have a male body, a male life, just like other boys... It's absolutely terrifying to me.

And then! Then to slowly realise, as I grew up and went through those steps, that people had LIED to me, and that I would in fact NEVER have a male body, that I would NEVER have a functioning penis, that I would NEVER be able to become a biological father... Ugh! That part is pure nightmare fuel. Realising that everyone LIED to me, my loved ones, my trusted ones, and that they supposedly did it out of LOVE, so I can't even express how fucking betrayed and HURT I am in the end...

Wow. I had a truly shitty childhood. I often tell myself that, "It could have been worse still!" But the idea that it could have been THAT worse, just because of something I might have said at the age of FOUR, chills me to the bones.

Yeah of course that would be crazy! If my 4 yr old said such a thing I would absolutely presume it was just a phase or just a child being a child who didn't yet know themselves.....I would certainly not encourage anything ... BUT if ten years down they were still insisting they had been born in the wrong body and felt suicidal as as result I think I'd have to listen to them....

EvieBB · 18/06/2026 06:59

QldGCandproud · 18/06/2026 05:42

Did you really just say that? 🤣🤣🤣

😂 BUT it's a fair point!....and humane