Rupert Lowe’s rape gang enquiry, report published

No you haven't answered my question. I'll remind you of it.

Do you think that [the fact you don't trust RL] means the testimonies of the victims, provided in the report, should be ignored?

I'm disgusted at both groups of men. In the real world rather than the Reformosphere, this is entirely possible.

Surely the one mentioned where they'd been convicted in Germany we could have checked.
I have no problem with deporting people back to countries of origin if they commit these crimes even if they'd potentially be killed in their country of origin either.
I'm not against additional checks and consequences for these people with criminal histories or who commit these crimes once they're here
But I do think only focusing on a small specific sample of men to fit a political narrative ultimately doesn't bring change and just fuels unnecessary hatred against certain races or religions.

Some cultures think it’s the woman’s fault if she is raped. In Some countries bribery is common. If the British police were involved in rape gangs then I doubt I believe the ‘Criminal record checks’ coming from many other countries are correct as these are usually obtained from a local police station.

If you go onto the DBS website you can see what foreign workers have to do to obtain a DBS check in GB. It varies massively. Some are asked to attend a police station and get a report about them and that will suffice.

It’s eye opening when so many police forces allow bribery. Some apparently allow you to pay the bribery in instalments. Would a police officer sign a form to get rid of a criminal making their town safer?

Do you trust Sammy Woodhouse?

I genuinely don't understand what your mental model of people like Rupert Lowe is. "A man who wants nothing more than to create hatred and division." Do you think he just gets up each morning, twirls his moustache and thinks "how can I stir up hatred today, mwahahaha"?

Or do you think he earnestly believes that there is a serious problem with immigrant criminals (I include 2nd/3rd gen non-native; intermarriage is unusual in these communities) committing horrific crimes justified by their own religious & racial animus, and he is personally open to a range of solutions to the problem, including ones which may be more extreme than you personally are okay with?

You can disagree on his proposed solutions (deportations, immigration bans, death penalty etc) but why do people act like their political opponents are just these cartoon villains with no genuine motivation?

You think the Taliban keeps diligent criminal records of sex attacks?

I've answered your question. I don't trust Rupert Lowe. There's no pickle.

That’s who you aim your disgust at? Not the perpetrators?

I've answered your question. I don't trust Rupert Lowe. There's no pickle.

Quote :"Which makes it very easy for people of both sides to use the same term.."

Both sides ? What are the sides? Who are they ?

Surely there is just one side, and that is the victims side ?

And I am not getting that from this report. Because to me, to best serve the victims the Lowe report should be impeccable. It should have recommendations backed up with indisputable (as far as possible) facts and data.

But this report does not do that. Even an armchair non academic such as myself can spot massive holes in it's data sourcing.

It does not even have conclusions and recommendations. It has "next steps" listed on page 179. I cut and pasted below, and I see nothing about helping the victims, except perhaps private prosecutions. But that makes no mention of who.

"● Publish this Inquiry’s full witness statements.
● Seek out further witness statements so that more victims can tell their story.
● Name within Parliament those found to have enabled the rape gangs.
● Continue initiating civil proceedings and private prosecutions where appropriate.
● We have had more women come forward since our formal hearings took place. Be in no doubt that we intend for our Rape Gang Inquiry to have a long life well beyond the publication of this one report. It will be updated as and when we learn more about the most horrific blight on our national story. This is the initial phase of a larger mission to make sure that no such avoidable atrocities can happen ever again."

You think the Taliban keeps diligent criminal records of sex attacks?

Well I'm hoping you'll answer it. Got yourself in a bit of a pickle, so I can see why you can't answer.

Most perpetrators of sexual crime then...

We can’t check for all that’s the issue.

Correct
And good men need to get angry about all men committing these crimes, not just the ones committed by someone with a different religion or skin colour or nothing will change to solve the problems we have with the failures to safeguard children or increase the convictions in court.

Yes, we should be stopping people moving here with criminal histories in other countries. But I don't care if it was a Pakistani Muslim or a white German man who committed these crimes.

Just because we have a poor justice system already doesn't mean we should ignore the fact that Pakistani men raped British children.

I will never understand this logic.

We can sit here all day and list different failings, diffent cases.

That is not what is being discussed right now.

Yes the conviction rate for rape is depressingly low, so that somehow justifies foreign men coming into the country and abusing British kids?

We just have to ignore it because 'something else happened and white men rape too'

White men raping outrages me.

This outrages me too!

The thing is rape happens everywhere, every country. We all have evil men of our own to contend with, when a British born man rapes a woman I am angry. I am angry at his choices, his behaviour and the justice system.

When an Afghan migrant rapes a woman I am angry at his choices, his behaviour and the justive system but I am also angry at the fact that this man has been welcomed into our country. Given a haven. Given a home (be realistic now, because someone coming over from Afghanistan is not supporting themselves and paying their own rent and their own way)

And then we find out this man was undocumented. And then we find out this man has prior convictions in Germany for rape. Then we find out that he raped in his home country. Then we find out he has a history of violent crimes.

Then because of the piss poor rape conviction rates he serves 6 months in a prison thats actually pretty decent to him.

Then he is let out. And he isn't deported.

And he rapes again.

Or worse.

How many times has something like that happened? Or someone who commits an act of terrorism has been 'on the watch list' or reported for worrying behaviour or has previous convictions for terrorism offences in XYZ country. Or had a twitter full of 'death to infidels'

We have enough rapists and nutcases of our own without importing a legion of men who OPENLY HATE US.

Most men are not rapists. But most rapists are men.
Most muslims are not terrorists. But most terrorists are Muslims.

Why has our Government decided that this is our burden to bear??

If Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sudan etc are such awful places and all these men want to leave then why are they trying to bring that countries customs and beliefs with them and implement them into Britain?

I

Correct
And good men need to get angry about all men committing these crimes, not just the ones committed by someone with a different religion or skin colour or nothing will change to solve the problems we have with the failures to safeguard children or increase the convictions in court.

Yes, we should be stopping people moving here with criminal histories in other countries. But I don't care if it was a Pakistani Muslim or a white German man who committed these crimes.

All rapists are men. Women cannot rape.

So the thing that gets me the most is, with our aging population and skills shortages in Europe and the need for immigration, just how exactly is that man going to contribute as a tax payer and skill gap filler?

He's not. He is a liability. Why are we letting oxygen stealers into Europe? He is a boil on the butt of humanity.

Anyways....

A report pointing telling it exactly how it is. That we have imported mass rape gangs who have abused our most vulnerable children and instead of reading the report and weeping, some people on here are focusing on the author and his politics.

As women you should be ashamed of yourselves.

I've not read the whole report but someone mentioned them getting the death penalty if they went back to Pakistan.

Seriously, who cares. If you don't want to be executed, then don't rape children, traffic them and pass them around your group of paedophiles.

All rapists are men. Women cannot rape.

So the thing that gets me the most is, with our aging population and skills shortages in Europe and the need for immigration, just how exactly is that man going to contribute as a tax payer and skill gap filler?

He's not. He is a liability. Why are we letting oxygen stealers into Europe? He is a boil on the butt of humanity.

Anyways....

A report pointing telling it exactly how it is. That we have imported mass rape gangs who have abused our most vulnerable children and instead of reading the report and weeping, some people on here are focusing on the author and his politics.

As women you should be ashamed of yourselves.

I've not read the whole report but someone mentioned them getting the death penalty if they went back to Pakistan.

Seriously, who cares. If you don't want to be executed, then don't rape children, traffic them and pass them around your group of paedophiles.

@RedTagAlan posting this separately to properly engage with your post re: the stats used in the report and how they are used.

I think a core issue is that "group-based CSE" is a term which some people use to mean "Pakistani Muslim rape and torture gangs" and some people use to mean "at least 2 people acting together to sexually exploit children".

Which makes it very easy for people of both sides to use the same term ("grooming gangs") to refer to different things, including different denominators for the "x% of population" statistics. And then to accuse the other side of misinfo.