Rupert Lowe’s rape gang enquiry, report published

I have no interest in playing your silly verbal games.

I take the - maybe controversial in these parts - view that I won't criticise survivors who talk to Tommy Robinson. I don't like Tommy, but there is a good chance he's been the only prominent person to give them a hearing.

Getting on a plane to be a headline speaker at a conference organised by one of Europe's most prominent neo-nazi activists is much less easy to explain away. And it's a gift to anyone who wants to attack Sammy's credibility. I personally would much rather have Sammy protect her brand.

How is he able to afford that? Where is his money coming from then. landlord, shareholder +

Restore Britain MP Rupert Lowe received more than £10,000 from X in a single month, having earned more than £70,000 from the platform since being elected.
Having been suspended from Nigel Farage's Reform UK in March last year over bullying complaints – which he denied – Lowe has since set up his own political party, Restore Britain.

That is the most shocking thing I've read all year.

I have just checked on Muslim Mumsnet and there is no thread on the topic of Gang Rape.

@SionnachRuadh
Have you read the item on Wikipedia that is part of the biography of Sammy Woodhouse? It gives her story.
You question of her political interests. Why? Do you think that she would deserve less help from the Law if she were a Communist or a Reform supporter. I see from your comments that you have less sympathy for her because she is Right of Centre.

I’ll answer after you. Who are you relying on to bring the information in this report to light?

The Mail on Sunday did a big splash on Restore activists attended Sellner's conference.

Perhaps out of regard to her history, they didn't splash on Sammy W being one of the main speakers.

Do you think we're under an oath of silence not to criticise Sammy if she chooses to keep company with literal fascists and white nationalists?

Or do you think it might be helpful to Sammy's cause if she realises she's giving an enormous gift to deniers?

Please don’t tell me how OSPC’s work, I deal with them for a living and am not relying on what “someone said.”

Pakistan OSPC are issued at regional level. I’m looking at one, as we speak. They’re issued at national level if you follow the High Commission (embassy) route. Same for India. Unless you’re suggesting that they are bribing the embassy.

Ghana issue theirs as a national certificate, regardless of which route.

In both cases, the certificates are standardised and printed, rather than handwritten by an officer you could give £2k to.

What’s this got to do with anything, out of interest? You don’t need an OSPC to arrive or live here, you need one to work in certain roles, mainly regulated activity.

Unless the Pakistani gang members were also nurses (?) their lack of OSPC has absolutely no relevance, it’s not a visa or residency requirement.

Who are you relying on to bring it to light?

This thread has become a case study in why the white working class girls, and the sex crimes of the Pakistani / British pakistani paedos were/ was ignored for so long.

Do you think it helps the credibility of the survivors if one of their most prominent advocates is photographed at a fascist knees-up?

Yeh it is. Focus on the victims not these attempts to undermine and dismiss.

It's not character assassination if she was a featured speaker at Sellner's conference. Which she was.

Character assassination doesn’t help. Sammy W doesn’t deserve it.

The report mentions plenty about helping. What do you think the pages of recommendations are for? That you disagree with them is by the by.

Ha ha - you just can't bring yourself to answer can you? I'm embarrassed for you. It's a straightforward question.

You said:

'No, I think he's [Rupert Lowe's] a populist. He'll say anything'

'I wouldn't trust Rupert Lowe as far as I could throw him. This week he said Tommy Robinson would be welcome in his party. He's financed by Elon Musk. Rupert Lowe cares about Rupert Lowe, not women and girls.'

Do you think that [the fact you don't trust RL] means the testimonies of the victims, provided in the report, should be ignored?

The Gov website suggests a local police station for some foreign nationals. I was shocked when I was told so I looked at the government website. I can see three examples of Local police stations and the applicant has to go in person - the employer cannot do it (edited to add Pakistan in this instance I didn’t check the other two).

Pakistan
Police Character Certificate.
Who can apply?

• individuals
• third party representatives (close relatives only) can apply, with written consent
• prospective employers cannot apply

Where?
Local applicants must apply through post or in person at relevant:

• city: Local city police officer/ local police station
• town: Local district office of Senior Superintendent of Police (SSP)
• FATA areas: Local FATA agency
• overseas applicants are advised to apply through the High Commission of Pakistan in Manchester or London, through post or in person

This suggests a Local City Police Officer can write one. It’s from the government website

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/criminal-records-checks-for-overseas-applicants/countries-g-to-p-applying-for-a-criminal-records-check-for-someone-from-overseas#pakistan

India
(local police station)
Where?

• individuals must apply in person directly to an Indian police service (local police service in applicant’s local jurisdiction) or via local regional passport office
• UK applicants may apply through the Indian High Commission in London (see below)

Ghana

Where?

• local applicants must visit Ghana Police Service Headquarters in Accra, or their local police station in person

It doesn't take a huge amount of effort not to hang out with Martin Sellner. He is, as I've mentioned, permanently banned from entering the UK, so you have to kind of go to him.

Labour will ignore anyone problematic. Including Rhiannon Whyte’s mother and Sammy Woodhouse.

It’s the opposite of giving a platform, it’s using all levers to shut women out.

Do you think Starmer's Labour government would have given her a platform? If they did would her speech have be policed as GMB attempted to do. After what she's lived through and continues to live through as was shown yesterday who can blame her.

The report mentions nothing about helping anybody.

It is victim statements, followed by much unrelated stuff on "Islam bad", followed by no conclusion.

Okay so firstly, you can’t move here and start work as a nurse the next day. Nor can you move here and start work as a teacher the next day.

You’d need to first prove equivalency.

We don’t accept OSPC from the village police chief. We accept them at regional or national level, which minimises risk of bribery.

Then there is detailed referencing that covers a 10 year period, only accepted from contacts who can be validated - not from random villagers.

I’m more than happy to engage on safeguarding, how it’s done and if it’s adequate, but first we need to be dealing in facts.

It just seems extremely noticeable that all these far right politicians and activists are becoming massively exercised about women’s rights when it intersects with their nationalistic rhetoric. Where were they all during the fourteen years of Tory Government?

And it’s not good enough to ONLY focus on victims of immigrants or ethnic minorities. You either care about women and girls or you don’t.

I’m the last person to be an apologist for any kind of rape gang. But any solutions have to be nuanced and workable. In other words they have to follow international law. Some people might be okay with forced mass deportation but we are not the US and we cannot ignore international law. Many of the rape gangs were actually British citizens so where are we going to deport them to. You also have to get agreement of the accepting countries, you can’t just send them back.

I also believe if they really cared about women they’d also be furious about John Warboys and Wayne Couzens. It is no consolation to rape and murder victims and their families that it is a white attacker and not a brown or black one.

Both sides: those who wish to focus on specifically Pakistani Muslims gangs through specific policy measures that target them more effectively, and those who prefer a race/ethnicity-blind approach and want to focus on common factors between all perpetrators.

I think that is a charitable description of both camps.

I don't think this is about being on the side of victims or not. I do think there is a wider discomfort in society with looking at perpetrator demographics rather than victim demographics. We are comfortable with directing extra help to victims based on demographic characteristics. Were less comfortable with directing extra scrutiny to potential criminals, even if it's based on similar per capita disproportionality logic. See also: stop-and-search vs prostate cancer screening discussion recently.

So if I moved here from abroad and started work as a nurse today, my dbs would show nothing. I have no police record or any record in the UK.

Could my police check from my town or village have been obtained via bribery? How does my employer ensure I didn’t pay £2k to the local police force to get a clean letter?