Push and pull factors in transitioning

A transgender-identified male is still a male, even if he thinks he's a woman. Whatever he may have in common with women is because it's shared between the sexes to begin with. There is no one trait that TIMs have that differentiate them from males.

It's not much of a leap at all to suggest that the differences between men and women are held on the basis of their sex, which is not shared between TIMs and women.

TRAs never understand this part - The reason women want TIMs out of our spaces is because of a shared trait we all have, our sex, and how society has treated us because of it.

TIMs do not respect this, because they do not share our experience of being treated this way, because they are male.

So they lack both the biology of being female, and also the resulting experience of being a woman.

If they truly understood women, then they would respect the boundary on our spaces. They would say "Although I feel myself to be a woman, I want women to feel safe, so I will not intrude." That would generally be the response of someone who's raised as a girl, who's been made to feel she should put everyone else's needs ahead of her own.

Instead, we get a narcissistic display of anger, and another "No. I'm coming in whether you like it or not, and if you don't get out of my way..." Which is exactly how someone raised as a boy would respond.

'A trans woman's body still works like a man's so they couldn't have anything psychologically in common with women on average'

Quite the leap.

But "on average" means nothing since by definition it means there will be plenty of people who fall outside of said average. So you can't determine if someone is a man or a woman by their presentation, since you don't know if they fall within the average or not.

Same way you can't with mental illness. A person could be severely depressed & suppressing their symptoms publicly so nobody knows. It relies on self reporting.

Which is yet another reason why this whole matter of average presentation is pointless, since you don't know if any individual aligns with their gender, sex or whatever.

Like mental illness it relies on self reporting. Just because you can't 'see' something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Are you suggesting you don't notice anything different in presentation between men & women on average that's clearly defined?

But "on average" means nothing since by definition it means there will be plenty of people who fall outside of said average. So you can't determine if someone is a man or a woman by their presentation, since you don't know if they fall within the average or not.

It's upto an individual whether they identify more with their natal sex or gender similarities to the opposite sex.

Which is yet another reason why this whole matter of average presentation is pointless, since you don't know if any individual aligns with their gender, sex or whatever.

Average behaviours like these?

Nobody's conversation is identical to anyone else's,

Stop distracting. On average behaviours is the point here not individual.

MH symptoms are clearly defined.
"behaviours & inclinations similar to cis women/men on average" are not.

Are you suggesting you don't notice anything different in presentation between men & women on average that's clearly defined? C'mon. Be serious here.

And if they are, then I have a problem, because my hobbies are typically female, so I suppose I'm not really a transman?

No. Because identity is an individual subjective belief based on personal values.
It's upto an individual whether they identify more with their natal sex or gender similarities to the opposite sex. Just because gender categorisations exist doesn't mean an individual defines themselves by them just as they don't sex categorisations. Its upto them.

So are you suggesting other than conversations about reproductive issues, men & women's conversational content on average is identical?

Nobody's conversation is identical to anyone else's, we all have different interests and knowledge. What am I supposed to talk about as a woman? I tend to hang out in mixed sex groups so maybe there's a conversation happening in single sex groups that I've just not been party to. Or do you mean the tendency to mansplaining whatever the topic is? I haven't noticed transwomen being any less inclined to do that than other men.

caricature

You could say that about a hellva lot of cis women. Are they 'deluded' caricatures too? Or could that be just a common preference amongst cis women?

MH symptoms are clearly defined.

"behaviours & inclinations similar to cis women/men on average" are not.

And if they are, then I have a problem, because my hobbies are typically female, so I suppose I'm not really a transman?

They don't though, it's always a caricature. And I reject cis.

It's the best it can be, it is never real.

You say the same about trans people where they exhibit behaviours & inclinations similar to cis women/men on average.

If the standard is behaviour now you have to be consistent.

But unlike gender identity, a lot of mental illnesses are perfectly observable... Like, when someone has a psychotic break, you don't need them to tell you. When someone is deeply depressed, there are visible symptoms. And so on.

That's irrelevant to the point being made here which is about the standard of legitimacy being consistent.

The OP makes a whole bunch of unfalsifiable claims as to why trans people exist but at the same time claim that being trans is illegitimate because it is unfalsifiable.

You can't have it both ways.

There is a man living nearby who walks his two dogs around the field wearing a tutu. He’s grown his hair long and wears loads of make up. He is not a woman and terrifies me when we cross paths. Group 2 for sure.

We can observe when a man says that he is a woman and that he claims it is because of his "internal gender identity" being female. But this is just evidence that some men believe this about themselves, not that some men are women.

"Unless with very good friends I might want to talk about our experiences of pregnancy and menopause and things, and I'm certainly not including a transwoman in that, that would be cruel."

So are you suggesting other than conversations about reproductive issues, men & women's conversational content on average is identical?

Because that would be as ludicrous as saying their bodies are.

Realistically the vast vast majority of my daily interactions nobody cares whether I'm a man or a woman. If I occasionally feel they might be treating me differently because of my sex I object, and try to find ways to steer the conversation back onto a neutral track.

It's easy to see why feminists are clashing with trans activists if the latter want our entire relationship with the world to be based on not even our actual sex but some voluntarily adopted feelings based category loosely associated with it. No! I want to be treated as a human being, a technically competent and domestically incompetent one as I happen to be. If anyone wants to relate to me as they expect women to relate, frankly, they're going to find the interaction disappointing.

Unless with very good friends I might want to talk about our experiences of pregnancy and menopause and things, and I'm certainly not including a transwoman in that, that would be cruel.

From a strict, traditional scientific standpoint, both mental illness & internal gender identity relies on personal, subjective reporting rather than a universally observable or measurable biological benchmark.

So GC's can't have it both ways where they assert self reporting isn't a legitimate measure of evidence.

If he passed so perfectly how did it come to be that he was forced to come out?

Those who were shocked only saw him on YouTube. Do you really think he had frictionless interactions in everyday life?

Well it's a pickle. I'm going to assume not the one in the suit 😆

It’s easy to look back with hindsight, but it was legitimately shocking to people when she was forced to come out

For anyone who doesn't know nikkie, Google 2021 eurovision presenters and guess who we are talking about.