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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Push and pull factors in transitioning

313 replies

GCScot · 16/06/2026 09:32

People's motivations in making a change can be categorised into 'push' and 'pull' factors. 'Push' factors are your dissatisfaction with your current state. 'Pull' factors are the perceived advantages of another state.

I started thinking about the possible push and pull factors for people transitioning their gender. It made me realise that there are two distinct groups:

Group 1 = mainly motivated by push factors. i.e. they are unhappy with their sexed body. They include:

  • Women/girls with internalised misogyny
  • Gay people with internalised homophobia
  • Non-genderconforming autistic people who have internalised sexist stereotypes as fact
  • Survivors of abuse/trauma who are trying to protect themselves from future abuse/trauma

Group 2 = mainly motivated by pull factors. i.e. they are attracted to being/being perceived to be the opposite sex. They include:

  • People who are sexually aroused by the idea of themselves being the opposite sex (AGP/AAP)
  • People who think they can gain a personal advantage (sporting/competitive/sexual access) by claiming to be the opposite sex

Group 1 are mainly children and young adults, especially girls. They have gender dysphoria. Because they are trying to permanently and convincingly escape their sexed bodies, they are more likely to undergo medical modifications (surgery, artificial hormones). They have a diverse range of vulnerabilities as a result of their own personal life experiences and the prejudices of society

Group 2 are mainly adult men. We might say they have gender euphoria. Because they aren't trying to escape their sexed bodies they are unlikely to undergo medical modification, preferring temporary and superficial modifications such as clothes, make up, prosthetics, names and pronouns. The majority of the aggressive vocal TRAs come from this group

TRAs deliberately merge the two groups

They know they can utilise the sincerity, vulnerability and innocence of Group 1:
Trans appears in childhood - it must be innate!
Trans appears in childhood - it can't be sexually motivated!
Trans people have gender dysphoria - they're vulnerable!
Look at the lengths they'll go to (surgery, hormones) - they must be genuine!

But when it comes to the motivations of trans people, the TRAs suddenly switch track. They emphasise the pull factor acting on Group 2 ("wanting to be a wo/man") rather than the push factor acting on Group 1 (trying to escape your sexed body). Because any detailed discussion of just why someone might want to escape their body would raise awkward questions about whether wanting to transition is really a cause for celebration and affirmation.

I think it's very important we distinguish between the two groups when discussing objections to gender ideology. They are very different groups with different motivations and consequences. I think part of the reason so many trans allies are resistant to changing their opinions or even discussing the issue is because most of the trans people they know are Group 1s. They recognise these people's sincerity and vulnerability and have been duped by Group 2 TRAs into not examining the underlying push and pull factors of transition

OP posts:
murasaki · 16/06/2026 17:32

OneDarkDeer · 16/06/2026 17:27

No, I feel no obligation to call that person ‘she’. He is a serial sex offender and I think it’s offensive to refer to him as ‘she’.

I haven’t said anywhere that women should share spaces with him or other trans women…

But what's the difference between him amd other transwomen? Sexual assault aside? If you call some she, surely you have to call then all she.

Your willing cognitive dissonance is baffling if not surprising to me. It's all a bit Sturgeon.

HenriettaSwanLeavitt · 16/06/2026 17:32

I'm interested in the boundary between push and pull. When does not wanting to be your actual sex cross-over into wanting to be, or even believing you are, the opposite sex? Why do some people not stop at removing or reducing or trying to hide their sex characteristics? Why do they then move on to trying to mimic opposite-sex characteristics and stereotypes?

Slothtoes · 16/06/2026 17:29

Your OP is very well put and it makes really important strategic points about who is vulnerable and who isn’t and who is benefiting from the conflating and obscuring that is being done. Thank you so much for this.

OneDarkDeer · 16/06/2026 17:27

TheKeatingFive · 16/06/2026 17:08

Right.

So why are you calling him 'he'? Wouldn't that make him 'she' according to you?

And 'she' should have access to women's spaces, correct?

So how do you explain that to biological women? Why are you making their spaces less safe by subjecting them to Paula? What have they done to deserve that? How is that right or fair?

No, I feel no obligation to call that person ‘she’. He is a serial sex offender and I think it’s offensive to refer to him as ‘she’.

I haven’t said anywhere that women should share spaces with him or other trans women…

Soontobe60 · 16/06/2026 17:25

There’s one other type of people who identify as trans. They are what I would once have called the ‘misfits’ of society. They would have been kids on the periphery of all the different social groups in their teens, not sporty, not clever, not musical, not attractive. They would have been children who went under the radar in school.
Now, those very same people have discovered that if they self identify as trans (and often physically disabled and ND), they garner a great deal of attention because suddenly it’s cool to be ‘marginalised’; they see celebrities championing their cause, MPs telling parliament that these people deserve love, and kindness, and support - even going so far as telling them that these people deserve laws to be changed so that men can have unfettered access to women’s spaces, and women should be able to get their breasts removed as its empowerment. So now, those once considered misfits are at the apex of the pyramid of identity.

cherryicecreamisnice · 16/06/2026 17:13

It follows the brilliant saying: women run from things and men run toward things.

Apollo441 · 16/06/2026 17:11

TheKeatingFive · 16/06/2026 17:08

Right.

So why are you calling him 'he'? Wouldn't that make him 'she' according to you?

And 'she' should have access to women's spaces, correct?

So how do you explain that to biological women? Why are you making their spaces less safe by subjecting them to Paula? What have they done to deserve that? How is that right or fair?

I think we'd all like an answer to this.

TheKeatingFive · 16/06/2026 17:08

OneDarkDeer · 16/06/2026 17:03

Yes, unfortunately he is

Right.

So why are you calling him 'he'? Wouldn't that make him 'she' according to you?

And 'she' should have access to women's spaces, correct?

So how do you explain that to biological women? Why are you making their spaces less safe by subjecting them to Paula? What have they done to deserve that? How is that right or fair?

OneDarkDeer · 16/06/2026 17:03

TheKeatingFive · 16/06/2026 16:15

So is Paula a 'transperson' or not?

Yes, unfortunately he is

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 16/06/2026 16:50

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 16/06/2026 10:49

Well done speaking to absolutely zero trans people, failing to read what they and their families have to say - and absorbing a lot of online propaganda.

Trans people are born, not made. They are a tiny minority.

Trans boys and men are more at risk when they transition. They experience more sexual harassment and abuse than before. It's incredibly ignorant of you not to know this - but unsurprising, I suppose.

Dear god seek help. Wasting your life explaining why a minority you don't belong to exists is not normal behaviour. Conspiracy theories are not people, life is not a computer game and malicious transphobia (which is what all of the above is) is not a public service.

Mary Whitehouse would've been proud of you, but Dr Science is running screaming from the building.

I am speaking from experience of trans people in my family, as well as observing the online behaviour of many others.

FrippEnos · 16/06/2026 16:36

spannasaurus · 16/06/2026 13:36

So we should respect a transwomans identity as a female and let them in female single sex spaces until such time as that transwoman commits sexual assault or some other predatory behaviour and only then may we say that they are actually a man?

At that point they stop being trans and become a cis man. You have to stay in character.

ByTheRiverside · 16/06/2026 16:32

TheKeatingFive · 16/06/2026 16:15

So is Paula a 'transperson' or not?

He's one of the trans-est I've seen.

TheKeatingFive · 16/06/2026 16:15

OneDarkDeer · 16/06/2026 13:31

I don’t think it’s discordant for me to believe trans people exist and deserve protection while also thinking sexual predators shouldn’t expect their identify to be respected

So is Paula a 'transperson' or not?

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 16/06/2026 16:11

GCScot · 16/06/2026 15:52

@MyKindHiker & @MagpiePi I don't think trans-identifying is as much of an advantage to women as it is to men:

  • it doesn't give them a sporting advantage over males as they still don't have the physical advantages of male puberty
  • women don't need to pretend to be male in order to get sexual access to men
  • simply identifying as male isn't enough to gain them the cultural advantages that men have. If they don't 'pass' they will still face all the obstacles other women face. They can be vulnerable in male spaces, as evidenced by the recent heartbreaking case of the trans-identifying woman who was raped within 24 hours of being placed in a male prison
  • women are explicitly legally forbidden from identifying as men in order to claim aristocratic male hereditary advantages (titles and property)

The perceived advantage of not having to perform femininity (or having to believe you have failed at performing femininity) cannot be discounted though.

There is also a new phenomenon in young trans-identifying girls, that they dress extremely femininely - low cut tops, very short skirts, heavy makeup, super high heels - while simultaneously stating that they are boys. If you think about it, this makes a weird kind of sense: if they are boys dressing like this, then it is a choice - “I am a boy who chooses to dress femme” rather than “I am a girl who is conforming to the world’s expectation of how I should present.”

This all feels like a “running away” from femaleness, and all its accompanying baggage. A push, but not towards something, rather away from it.

Seethlaw · 16/06/2026 16:10

GCScot · 16/06/2026 15:52

@MyKindHiker & @MagpiePi I don't think trans-identifying is as much of an advantage to women as it is to men:

  • it doesn't give them a sporting advantage over males as they still don't have the physical advantages of male puberty
  • women don't need to pretend to be male in order to get sexual access to men
  • simply identifying as male isn't enough to gain them the cultural advantages that men have. If they don't 'pass' they will still face all the obstacles other women face. They can be vulnerable in male spaces, as evidenced by the recent heartbreaking case of the trans-identifying woman who was raped within 24 hours of being placed in a male prison
  • women are explicitly legally forbidden from identifying as men in order to claim aristocratic male hereditary advantages (titles and property)

women don't need to pretend to be male in order to get sexual access to men

Not quite true. Young women do it to get access to gay men, just like men do it to get access to lesbians.

Seethlaw · 16/06/2026 16:07

MagpiePi · 16/06/2026 13:55

Yes, it is odd that while there has been an explosion of middle aged men suddenly finding and being able to express their true selves as women, there is no corresponding cohort of middle aged women.

Why is it that a non-dominant part of society can't just identify and be accepted into the dominant group?

I do think there are fewer middle-aged transmen than transwomen, but one important factor is visibility.

First, lots of transmen can easily pass as queer women, so they wouldn't necessarily be counted as transmen to begin with. Transwomen, especially middle-aged ones, are much more visibly transwomen rather than gay men for example.

Another factor is, well, exhibitionism. There are plenty of "quiet" transwomen who don't try to attract anybody's attention, but there is also an awful lot of "loud" ones who want to be seen. Transmen, by contrast, tend to be mostly on the quieter side, not as showy or attention-demanding (we were, after all, socialised as women.)

So all in all, I think that even if there were the same number of middle-aged TM and TW, there would appear to be a lot more TW.

MoistVonL · 16/06/2026 16:04

The young women I know who claim.trans or non-binary identities have all suffered from mental health issues and in several cases abuse. It seemed clear to me they were running away from, rather than towards.

In Time To Think, Hannah Barnes discusses this with stats to back it up. These girls are damaged and desperately trying to find a way to live safely. It's a tragedy that the lie they've been sold as something to help, will instead harm them.

PrizedPickledPopcorn · 16/06/2026 16:00

GCScot · 16/06/2026 15:52

@MyKindHiker & @MagpiePi I don't think trans-identifying is as much of an advantage to women as it is to men:

  • it doesn't give them a sporting advantage over males as they still don't have the physical advantages of male puberty
  • women don't need to pretend to be male in order to get sexual access to men
  • simply identifying as male isn't enough to gain them the cultural advantages that men have. If they don't 'pass' they will still face all the obstacles other women face. They can be vulnerable in male spaces, as evidenced by the recent heartbreaking case of the trans-identifying woman who was raped within 24 hours of being placed in a male prison
  • women are explicitly legally forbidden from identifying as men in order to claim aristocratic male hereditary advantages (titles and property)

Can you clarify point 2?
Does anyone need to pretend to be a different sex to get sexual access to anyone? I don’t think many men increase their chances of sexual access to men or women by transitioning. In fact I always thought it tragic they are likely to significantly reduce their chances of finding someone compatible.

Increased opportunities for voyeurism, I suppose.

GCScot · 16/06/2026 15:52

MagpiePi · 16/06/2026 13:55

Yes, it is odd that while there has been an explosion of middle aged men suddenly finding and being able to express their true selves as women, there is no corresponding cohort of middle aged women.

Why is it that a non-dominant part of society can't just identify and be accepted into the dominant group?

@MyKindHiker & @MagpiePi I don't think trans-identifying is as much of an advantage to women as it is to men:

  • it doesn't give them a sporting advantage over males as they still don't have the physical advantages of male puberty
  • women don't need to pretend to be male in order to get sexual access to men
  • simply identifying as male isn't enough to gain them the cultural advantages that men have. If they don't 'pass' they will still face all the obstacles other women face. They can be vulnerable in male spaces, as evidenced by the recent heartbreaking case of the trans-identifying woman who was raped within 24 hours of being placed in a male prison
  • women are explicitly legally forbidden from identifying as men in order to claim aristocratic male hereditary advantages (titles and property)
OP posts:
Seethlaw · 16/06/2026 15:50

EmilyinEverton · 16/06/2026 13:24

You won't discuss it because you can't admit that being a transwoman is an entirely unfalsifiable belief

So are mental illnesses so by GC logic trans people can't be kRaZy.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Are you arguing that mental illnesses are unfalsifiable? Because, well, that's just not true, is it?

BlueSkiesAndSunshiiine · 16/06/2026 15:48

I agree, OP- interesting points.

I tell you what I'm fed up of, and it's trolls deliberately going off on a silly argument to derail threads on this topic.

Apollo441 · 16/06/2026 15:44

OneDarkDeer · 16/06/2026 15:42

No one here has asked to open up women’s spaces. You’ve come here and hijacked a discussion on the reasons why people transition.

No it was your failure to acknowledge the broad range of people that claim a trans identity. Precisely on point.

OneDarkDeer · 16/06/2026 15:42

Apollo441 · 16/06/2026 15:38

This is a typical MALE crime. 99% of sexual crimes are committed by males which is why we keep males out of places where women and girls are vilulnerable. Transwomen are male. You are asking to open up women's spaces to these sorts of crimes and then use the criminal justice system after the damage has been done. How about a simpler solutuon. Keep males out of female spaces. Was that difficult to follow?

No one here has asked to open up women’s spaces. You’ve come here and hijacked a discussion on the reasons why people transition.

Apollo441 · 16/06/2026 15:38

EmilyinEverton · 16/06/2026 13:24

You won't discuss it because you can't admit that being a transwoman is an entirely unfalsifiable belief

So are mental illnesses so by GC logic trans people can't be kRaZy.

This is a typical MALE crime. 99% of sexual crimes are committed by males which is why we keep males out of places where women and girls are vilulnerable. Transwomen are male. You are asking to open up women's spaces to these sorts of crimes and then use the criminal justice system after the damage has been done. How about a simpler solutuon. Keep males out of female spaces. Was that difficult to follow?

murasaki · 16/06/2026 15:33

OneDarkDeer · 16/06/2026 14:38

I was making a very specific point about respecting someone’s identify. Paula is still a trans woman, but I don’t feel any obligation to refer to him that way.

Ahaha. Come on, this is just silly. You're either a believer, or you aren't.