Former teacher guilty of sexually abusing and murdering baby boy he wanted to adopt - CPS

No, this is not accurate either.

Afaik taking a bath with your baby or toddler, male or female, is pretty normal in most families. Am I wrong for thinking that?

Taking pictures of your own child naked isn't either, and yet that's considered CSAM. It all depends on the context. And men in a bath with children? I don't know a single man in my extended family who does that. Mothers, often. But this is about male adopters.

Your arguments are overly personalised and not terribly logical. On one hand, PP are - quite reasonably - complaining that adoptive families are left to manage once a child is in the family, which is what also happens to birth families, and yet OTOH you are complaining that there should be any suggestion at all, once a child is placed in a family, that bonding might not be quite as straightforward as with a birth family?

Yes, depressingly familiar. I have read this on other threads. Posters seriously suggesting that adoptive children should have their genitals scrutinised for signs of potential sexual abuse. Because obviously this is not inherently abusive to the children. I’m happy to take my kids to the GP to have their genitals investigated if you’ll take yours. After all, lots of women kill their children.

Literally none of this is an "attack on adopters" ffs. It is about child safeguarding and child protection in the face of male child sexual assault.

You are posting on a feminism board, where the women here often discuss issues like male violence, sexual violence against women and children, child protection and safeguarding. Without sugarcoating, and yes, often bluntly. MANY women here have been on the wrong end of that and have extensive experience. Many women are parents, many will also be adopters. But this is a thread about Preston Davey. It is not a "plight of adopters" thread or board nor an adopters v biological parents board.

Child protection is about centering the needs and safety of the child and not the wishes of adults. I'm sorry if that upsets you but that is how child protection is supposed to work.

Afaik taking a bath with your baby or toddler, male or female, is pretty normal in most families. Am I wrong for thinking that?

Have you missed all the research on this thread about the risk factors about non related males in the home? Perhaps you'd like to go back and read it and then have a think about what open relationships might look like.

And no, I'm not giving you the evidence as it will compromise me. Although why you'd imagine I would make up such a weird and troubling thing is troubling in itself

It is not advised,no. (Actually in most birth families adult males don't have baths with their babies or young children and it may well be considered a red flag in some circumstances. I don't know many dads who do, mums yes, more).

But once again, this is NOT about the supposed plight of adopters v birth parents and your personal gripes about there even being a system that may differentiate you. The STATE is placing a baby in a stranger's care. The STATE has responsibility here. Preston Davey's horrific murder is not about you.

From the perspective of Preston's welfare and safeguarding It was a MASSIVE red flag yes. And turned out to be highly indicative of JV's sexual interest in him.

Preston is at the centre here. Not JV. Not your or any other adopter's feelings that are entirely unrelated to this case.

Yes, you did. Please go back and read your posts.

Have you missed all the research on this thread about the risk factors about non related males in the home? Perhaps you'd like to go back and read it and then have a think about what open relationships might look like.

And no, I'm not giving you the evidence as it will compromise me. Although why you'd imagine I would make up such a weird and troubling thing is troubling in itself

Yes, and we do. But bathing alongside a baby is not a weird thing to do.

Send me the evidence and I will be happy to eat my hat. Also, to be honest, as a singleton for the entirety of my adoption journey, I personally don’t understand why consenting non-monogamy would be an issue. I’m assuming they’re not shagging in front of the children. There’s lots of non-consenting non-monogamy in regular families here, judging by what I read in AIBU.

You're just making stuff up now. I've never said anything of the sort.

That's a strange approach: is the selection process also unfair, given that it's not used with birth families?

If your job is giving children to other people to raise, that means taking some extra responsibility for its safety that you don't have for all the children you see in the street.

Yes, depressingly familiar. I have read this on other threads. Posters seriously suggesting that adoptive children should have their genitals scrutinised for signs of potential sexual abuse. Because obviously this is not inherently abusive to the children. I’m happy to take my kids to the GP to have their genitals investigated if you’ll take yours. After all, lots of women kill their children.

So birth families can do this but just not adoptive families?

Their role as an agency is solely about recruitment and assessment of potential adopters for approval generally as adopters.

If it's the case that they followed the "correct" procedures, then maybe there's something massively wrong with those procedures, when couples who are apparently planning on sexually abusing a child can get approval?

And if there's really nothing that can be fixed in the procedures, then I think someone needs to start looking a lot more closely at all the children who have already been placed for adoption for signs of sexual abuse. And maybe we might find if we did that, that certain adoption agencies are better at placing children safely than others.

I definitely think that red flags were missed once Preston was placed.

However, it shouldn't be assumed that red flags were also definitely missed before. Abusers can be very good actors, as I said above.

Most adults who understand child protection especially when a child has been placed newly with adult males would know that this would be viewed as extremely inappropriate. I can't believe I even have to spell this out to another supposed adult.

A naked adult man in a bath with an unrelated child who has literally just been placed with him. No. Absolutely not.

Good grief. WAY more education is needed on absolute fundamentals, this is fucking ridiculous.

New Family Social are currently promoting info sessions on such topics as 'consenting non monogamy' and swinging - to agency staff across the UK. They don't advertise these sessions to the general public. Their podcast features one episode where a gay adoptive dad talks about his open relationship and bringing men home when his child is at school.

I cannot understand why any agency, taking safeguarding seriously, would have anything to do with them.

Their role as an agency is solely about recruitment and assessment of potential adopters for approval generally as adopters.

If it's the case that they followed the "correct" procedures, then maybe there's something massively wrong with those procedures, when couples who are apparently planning on sexually abusing a child can get approval?

And if there's really nothing that can be fixed in the procedures, then I think someone needs to start looking a lot more closely at all the children who have already been placed for adoption for signs of sexual abuse. And maybe we might find if we did that, that certain adoption agencies are better at placing children safely than others.

Their role as an agency is solely about recruitment and assessment of potential adopters for approval generally as adopters.

If it's the case that they followed the "correct" procedures, then maybe there's something massively wrong with those procedures, when couples who are apparently planning on sexually abusing a child can get approval?

And if there's really nothing that can be fixed in the procedures, then I think someone needs to start looking a lot more closely at all the children who have already been placed for adoption for signs of sexual abuse. And maybe we might find if we did that, that certain adoption agencies are better at placing children safely than others.