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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Calling females with ambiguous appearance

95 replies

Brainworm · 13/06/2026 10:07

TRAs are expressing increasing levels of concern for females whose presentation is ambiguous in relation to their sex. They often cite women with allopecia, cancer survivors and butch lesbians.

I thought it might be productive if we collate some ‘lived experiences’ so we can provide constructive advice to those concerned.

I am 5 feet 11. I have very broad shoulders and short hair, but not balding. I am also a cancer survivor (mastectomy) and live in ‘gender neutral’ clothes. No jewellery, no make up, always trousers, always flat shoes (trainers).

Pre menopause there were occasions when people did a double take, especially in winter when wrapped up - I was very hour-glassy (not willowy), so not androgynous in that sense. Once or twice, over 30 odd years I had people say things like - gosh, you’re tall, which I sensed was communicating some concern. As soon as I spoke, all concern was lost - probably due to 2 things. My voice is clearly female, and the nature of my response was pleasant.

Post meno, my waist has thickened. My fat distribution is still female indicating but less so, so I am less obviously female than before. However, I haven’t been questioned or challenged more. If I was, I have no doubt the same would apply once I responded as outlined above.

So, my advice to females who have androgynous, ambiguous or male appearances (I’m excluding those who take exogenous hormones with the intention to pass as male) is to accept, as fact, that your appearance is one that could lead people to question your sex. If this is upsetting, try and work on self acceptance - we are a lot more than our outward appearance. If someone questions your sex within the context of single sex provision, see this as them looking out for you, just as much as more feminine looking women. Rest assured that if you speak, this alone is likely to dispel their fears.

Anyone else have any tips to share? It would be great if the TRAs didn’t have to worry about this group and could instead focus on finding solutions for trans people.

OP posts:
Zapx · 15/06/2026 08:24

This happens to me fairly often, 5”9, buzz cut, no sense of style 🤣 It’s never been a problem! Just smile, say yep I’m a women, we normally both laugh in a relieved way.

I would be happy to be challenged every single time before we as women let men in unchallenged for fear of offending people like me.

RunningforSam · 15/06/2026 08:18

I guess TRAs might point out that regardless of whether you find the questioning upsetting or not, you ‘just wanna pee’ and should be able to go about this without challenge.

I was on the train yesterday, just wanting to listen to my podcast, and a ticket inspector came and required me to show him my ticket.

My son bought me an amazing kitchen knife for my birthday. When he bought it, there was a hoo- ha at John Lewis because he didn’t have his ID with him. He just wanted to shop.

There are all kinds of interruptions to ‘just getting on’ with activities of daily living.

Many grips need to be gotten, both with coping with someone not correctly sexing you and with people checking you are in the right place

OldCrone · 15/06/2026 08:14

Imdunfer · 15/06/2026 07:44

Thanks. Now I have women accusing me of lying.

I happens.

The point is that this only happens now because so many men have been insisting they're women and invading women's spaces.

The TRA line is that this is our fault for wanting our own spaces and not accepting men who claim to be women as real women and welcoming them into our spaces.

It's not our fault. It's those men's fault. If we could trust them to stay out we wouldn't need to be so vigilant and suspicious of everyone, some of whom turn out to be actual women.

TheHateUGive · 15/06/2026 08:03

anyolddinosaur · 15/06/2026 08:00

And what difference does their colour make? Am I supposed to believe everything someone says because of the colour of their skin? I havent watched the programme you refer to but if you believe tv programmes are not made with an agenda I have a bridge to sell you.

Yeah there was no agenda. It was just a white woman saying that she thought a Black woman was male.

Race makes a difference becauae racists often accuse Black women of being masculine/men.

anyolddinosaur · 15/06/2026 08:00

TheHateUGive · 15/06/2026 07:51

Some reports come from Black women. The woman I posted was accused of being trans on national TV in that programme "handcuffed" or whatever. Then after that, other (white) women have come to excitedly tell her that they agree she looks like a trans woman.

And what difference does their colour make? Am I supposed to believe everything someone says because of the colour of their skin? I havent watched the programme you refer to but if you believe tv programmes are not made with an agenda I have a bridge to sell you.

Schoolchoicesucks · 15/06/2026 07:56

Meadowfinch · 14/06/2026 11:21

I disagree completely OP.

I am 5'8" and slim but with some curves. Obviously female.

I lost my hair to chemo a few years ago. On the first day I had the courage to ditch my wig and show my inch long regrowth, I was walking from work up the steps of Waterloo Station. It was winter, cold and I was wearing work trousers and loafers. A man, total stranger, brushed past me and said loudly "f*cking dyke"

I have no intention of accepting that my appearance justified that comment. I may not have looked my best, it had been a tough few months, I worked all the way through and was tired but the only person in the wrong was the ignorant pathetic excuse for a man who thought that was acceptable.

The rude twat registered you as being a woman. He made an assumption about your sexuality based on your appearance. But he correctly clocked your sex. The OP is asking about cases where women have been misgendered.

TheHateUGive · 15/06/2026 07:51

anyolddinosaur · 15/06/2026 07:26

I dont perform femininity in the way trans activists believe is the way we should. But I have never had anyone question I am female. So I find it difficult to believe these tales of women being questioned in toilets. I've fortunately not been raped but had most of the other bad experiences women get just for being female. Odd how so many of these reports come from TRAs and their handmaidens, people who need it to happen. Almost as if they arrange for it to happen.

Edited

Some reports come from Black women. The woman I posted was accused of being trans on national TV in that programme "handcuffed" or whatever. Then after that, other (white) women have come to excitedly tell her that they agree she looks like a trans woman.

SomeGarlic · 15/06/2026 07:49

Imdunfer · 15/06/2026 07:44

Thanks. Now I have women accusing me of lying.

I happens.

That was my first thought - I've also replied that it's happened to me. But I do agree with her conclusion. These tales of distressed lesbians, usually with video interviews of them shaking & crying, have all struck me as more staged than Othello at the Globe.

Imdunfer · 15/06/2026 07:45

DeanElderberry · 15/06/2026 07:27

These 'females of ambiguous appearance' keep morphing into 'rodents of unusual size' in my brain. Hard night in the Bluestocking.

I'd quite like to come back as a capybara 😁

Imdunfer · 15/06/2026 07:44

anyolddinosaur · 15/06/2026 07:26

I dont perform femininity in the way trans activists believe is the way we should. But I have never had anyone question I am female. So I find it difficult to believe these tales of women being questioned in toilets. I've fortunately not been raped but had most of the other bad experiences women get just for being female. Odd how so many of these reports come from TRAs and their handmaidens, people who need it to happen. Almost as if they arrange for it to happen.

Edited

Thanks. Now I have women accusing me of lying.

I happens.

DeanElderberry · 15/06/2026 07:27

These 'females of ambiguous appearance' keep morphing into 'rodents of unusual size' in my brain. Hard night in the Bluestocking.

anyolddinosaur · 15/06/2026 07:26

I dont perform femininity in the way trans activists believe is the way we should. But I have never had anyone question I am female. So I find it difficult to believe these tales of women being questioned in toilets. I've fortunately not been raped but had most of the other bad experiences women get just for being female. Odd how so many of these reports come from TRAs and their handmaidens, people who need it to happen. Almost as if they arrange for it to happen.

CassOle · 14/06/2026 22:58

'... a wheelie bin wrapped in a puffer jacket'

What a great turn of phrase!

ArabellaScott · 14/06/2026 22:56

In the depths of a bad Scottish winter everyone looks like a wheelie bin wrapped in a puffer jacket.

And still sex is usually pretty easy to judge.

ArabellaScott · 14/06/2026 22:54

Imdunfer · 14/06/2026 18:06

Is anyone else sensing that women are scanning them for a longer time before being sure that they are women? I've noticed this, I think, at the gym, increasing in line with media exposure of the likes of Dylan Mulvaney, who do look very feminine.

Given relentless messaging that males will be using women's spaces regardless of the law or our feelings, that would be quite unsurprising.

Another thing for women to worry about. Add it to the list.

Cheers, lads.

BelieveInCher · 14/06/2026 22:51

Oh yeah, men are so concerned about our feelings, aren’t they?

Just the other week a young guy mistook me for a man as I was getting off the bus. Guess what I did? Laughed. Because my sense of self is not so fragile and full of holes that I need constant reassurance and validation from the world.

ArabellaScott · 14/06/2026 22:47

People who are very anxious about their sex are more likely to find it distressing to be clocked.

Most people aren't, and don't.

The TRAs will need to find another bullshit assertion to try and convince us that men belong in women's spaces, because this one does not fly.

Soz lads.

OnGoldenPond · 14/06/2026 22:00

Meadowfinch · 14/06/2026 11:21

I disagree completely OP.

I am 5'8" and slim but with some curves. Obviously female.

I lost my hair to chemo a few years ago. On the first day I had the courage to ditch my wig and show my inch long regrowth, I was walking from work up the steps of Waterloo Station. It was winter, cold and I was wearing work trousers and loafers. A man, total stranger, brushed past me and said loudly "f*cking dyke"

I have no intention of accepting that my appearance justified that comment. I may not have looked my best, it had been a tough few months, I worked all the way through and was tired but the only person in the wrong was the ignorant pathetic excuse for a man who thought that was acceptable.

What a shit. Sorry that happened to you . He still knew you were a woman, though, just not one who would sleep with him!

itisanothername · 14/06/2026 19:31

fanOfBen · 14/06/2026 17:48

You're absolutely unmistakably female in that photo, though, and it's not the pink jacket! What is it - something about your stance? Is it that men can't stand like that?

(Completely agree about the then vs now comparison re hair, clothes etc. It's really sad, to me, how sex stereotypes seem, in effect, to limit people's choices now.)

LOL, no, I have an hourglass figure. Never been boy- shaped. I just wanted to comment on the hairstyles.

Though at about that age I was beginning to worry about body hair. Not just on my legs, I started growing bushy sideboards and in the next couple of years lots of facial hair - hadn't heard of PCOS then and the only suggestion my (male) doctor had for sorting it was zapping it with radiation! Spent many teenage hours painfully yanking it out with tweezers. Thank goodness there are much better solutions now.

Imdunfer · 14/06/2026 18:06

Is anyone else sensing that women are scanning them for a longer time before being sure that they are women? I've noticed this, I think, at the gym, increasing in line with media exposure of the likes of Dylan Mulvaney, who do look very feminine.

Brainworm · 14/06/2026 18:05

CassOle · 14/06/2026 15:22

I've also been asked if I was male or female. It's not a big deal because I don't have a fragile, special identity which is crushed by the reality that I actually have a sex. Therefore, I was happy to answer the question truthfully, everyone moved on with their day, and no feelings were hurt.

THIS

This is the essential message for all those who are ‘oh so worried’ for the ‘cis women’ who will break in response to people wrongly accusing them of using female provision.

So long as those exploring the legitimacy of an individual using the provision isn’t abusive, the reverence isn’t something anyone should be unduly concerned about.

OP posts:
Brainworm · 14/06/2026 18:00

Meadowfinch · 14/06/2026 11:21

I disagree completely OP.

I am 5'8" and slim but with some curves. Obviously female.

I lost my hair to chemo a few years ago. On the first day I had the courage to ditch my wig and show my inch long regrowth, I was walking from work up the steps of Waterloo Station. It was winter, cold and I was wearing work trousers and loafers. A man, total stranger, brushed past me and said loudly "f*cking dyke"

I have no intention of accepting that my appearance justified that comment. I may not have looked my best, it had been a tough few months, I worked all the way through and was tired but the only person in the wrong was the ignorant pathetic excuse for a man who thought that was acceptable.

I’m really sorry this happened to you Meadow, let alone at such a vulnerable time for you.

This was bigoted, homophobic bullying. In referring to you as ‘a duke’, you weren’t being mistake for a male. You were ‘read’ as being female and assumptions were being made about your sexuality due to the length of your hair.

I hope that you have recovered from the cancer, the treatment and the hideous experience.

OP posts:
Gatehouse77 · 14/06/2026 17:52

I was often misgendered as a teenager, particularly when I had a flat-top 😜
I wasn’t bothered because I realised that I was the one not ‘conforming’ and they were making a reasonable judgement based on the societal conditions of the day. Sometimes I corrected them, sometimes I didn’t. A random bus driver or shop assistant making a mistake did not define me.

The only time I recall being embarrassed was when I was looking at underwear in M&S and an old lady insinuated I was some kind of pervert. Even then, I just walked away back to my mother and, whilst memorable, hasn’t had an impact.

The fact is that women in all shapes, sizes, ethnicities, fashion choices, etc. are welcome in women’s spaces. It’s the men who need to be educated to accept non-conforming men. It’s a men problem so stop imposing it on women.

DustyWindowsills · 14/06/2026 17:52

Long ago, when I was young and pretty and had my hair cut by a men's barber, I was misgendered at a toilet door by a Turkish lady in huge flowery trousers. I didn't fit into her experience of how women normally present themselves. It didn't bother me and I hope it didn't bother her.

Since menopause, I have been addressed as "sir" a few times, but only by men. It only bothers me in the sense that it's a sign I'm getting old.

fanOfBen · 14/06/2026 17:48

itisanothername · 14/06/2026 16:56

If you look at old photos, it's difficult to tell the boys from the girls - similar clothes, similar haircuts, and the girls did not normally wear make-up. Gender stereotypes were not strongly enforced.

Here's me at age 15 - a long, long time back - 1960s. The haircut wasn't unusual then. There were at least 2 other girls in my class with similar cuts (all girl's convent school).

You're absolutely unmistakably female in that photo, though, and it's not the pink jacket! What is it - something about your stance? Is it that men can't stand like that?

(Completely agree about the then vs now comparison re hair, clothes etc. It's really sad, to me, how sex stereotypes seem, in effect, to limit people's choices now.)

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