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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Cambridge University ignoring the Supreme Court ruling?

419 replies

yoursweetpotatoesarebland · 11/06/2026 23:27

Dd is going to the Cambridge open day coming up, I got an email through about the colleges and was having a read through. There’s a section about “gender identity” and how it impacts on what colleges you can apply to. There are two women’s colleges but both accept anyone who identifies as a woman!

This is from Murray Edwards:
“At the admissions level, we will consider any student who, at the point of application, identifies as a woman“

How can this still be allowed? It’s self ID too so has NEVER been legal for the purposes of the eqA.

OP posts:
PermanentTemporary · 12/06/2026 09:22

Dr Rachel Padman (retired) was appointed as a Fellow of Newnham in 1996. I can well believe there were several admissions of male people along the way. That was then, this is now.

Skybluepinky · 12/06/2026 09:15

They’ll consider which means they’ll then send them on to another of the colleges, most don’t get the one they apply to.

Realfastfoodie · 12/06/2026 09:12

Theeyeballsinthesky · 12/06/2026 09:06

So no evidence whatsoever then as is normal when ppl come here airily waving their hands saying "ooooh but men wearing dresses and performing female stereotypes have been in all women's everything's for years and years and years and you just didn't notice because they passed so well"

I’m stating I was there and I knew trans people there. You can choose not to believe me.

PermanentTemporary · 12/06/2026 09:11

I agree that the difficulty now is that the law very clearly does not allow single sex facilities to be mixed sex, in that the justification for excluding some men or some women because of their sex is not legal if it doesn’t exclude all of them.

Therefore both colleges in my view (IANAL) are opening themselves to a case for discrimination on the grounds of sex by a male student who did not get a place at Cambridge because he wears clothes coded as male rather than clothes coded as female.

And tbh if that doesn’t show you what an absolutely ludicrous situation we have ended up in, nothing will. And it has ZERO to do with your looooooovely friend Jane who transitioned in 2012 and is your bestie. Or FGS that male people have been observed on the college site.

The outcome I think will eventually be both colleges becoming fully mixed sex. I don’t really see how else they will square the circle of the law vs their own feelings when required to actually state that women are women. However, knowing some senior people at Newnham I do harbour some hope that they will hold out; there have been changes already, see threads passim.

TheHereticalOne · 12/06/2026 09:07

TeachWithMissM · 12/06/2026 00:12

As outlined in the gender policy which I will link here, Newnham explains that it is not a single sex space per se. There are male staff across all areas of the site and it is also very common for students to have male partners stay in college with them and use the communal bathroom facilities etc. There are even male academics who are affiliated with the college. Nobody at newnham is expecting not to come across any men in the college. Where there are religious or other reasons why someone might need a single-sex space, appropriate provisions are put in place and the presence of a very small number of trans students (based on UK census data it would be 0.6 of a student across the whole undergraduate population) does not prevent this.

here is the policy, given along with justifications: https://newn.cam.ac.uk/sites/default/files/2025-10/rationale.pdf

I hope and assume you are not reading law.

Ask one of the law tutors to explain to you why this policy is completely irrelevant to the question of whether Newnham is compliant with the Equality Act as clarified by the FWS Supreme Court judgment.

Then ask them to explain the mechanism within that statute by which the college lawfully justifies excluding all undergraduate men except undergraduate men (who remain "men" under the Act - GRC or not) who have the additional protected characteristic of 'gender reassignment'.

I'd love to hear the response.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 12/06/2026 09:06

Realfastfoodie · 12/06/2026 08:50

Well I’m more than 4 decades old. Not everyone agrees with you. I never post on these threads normally, mostly people who don’t want to be shouted at avoid them.

So no evidence whatsoever then as is normal when ppl come here airily waving their hands saying "ooooh but men wearing dresses and performing female stereotypes have been in all women's everything's for years and years and years and you just didn't notice because they passed so well"

ApplebyArrows · 12/06/2026 08:59

TeachWithMissM's post summarised (if I'm understanding properly): "I've never felt threatened by a trans woman at college so they should let them in; actually I've never even met a trans woman at college". The last bit completely breaks the attempted argument of the first! If there happened to be hoards of well-behaved trans women then maybe (maybe) you could make a statistical case that letting them in wasn't actually causing any problems, but that isn't the case at all.

Anyway it's not just about feeling threatened. Transwomen at a place like Cambridge are often very masculine in many aspects of their social interactions and learning styles (e.g. in the ways they dominate conversations). Female students deserve to be able to escape that.

SpudGunToo · 12/06/2026 08:59

BunnyBunbunbun · 12/06/2026 08:54

I'm not sure the subject heading is correct. The colleges decide who they accept, not the university. As long as the university (as opposed to college) buildings have single-sex facilities and services where those are necessary, then the university isn't violating the SC ruling.

As regards the colleges, it's an interesting question to what extent the women's colleges are violating the SC ruling by accepting male students because it's up to them whether their student composition is single sex or mixed sex. The real issue arises if they are then also allowing male students to use the female students' loos and bathrooms or whether they are setting aside any loos and bathrooms for the use of a handful of male students who claim to "identify" as women that they might accept.

There are plenty of great mixed-sex colleges your daughter could apply to.

If they are mixed sex then they must accept normal men, not only trans-identifying ones.

SpudGunToo · 12/06/2026 08:58

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 12/06/2026 00:23

Male staff don't take a female student's space. Male guests don't take a female student's space. By your argument, my all-girl secondary school was mixed because of men being on the staff.

If this is so-called logic is what Cambridge grads are spouting, I'm glad I went to a poly.

It’s motivated reasoning by left-wing activists who see no problem in dishonesty in their arguments.

On the subject of how can someone a bit dim graduate from a top university, it’s worth remembering too that some not very bright people with a phenomenally good (and expensive) education can make it to and through Cambridge, especially in humanities degrees with enough help.

As I’ve heard it put, you can’t polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter.

BunnyBunbunbun · 12/06/2026 08:54

yoursweetpotatoesarebland · 11/06/2026 23:27

Dd is going to the Cambridge open day coming up, I got an email through about the colleges and was having a read through. There’s a section about “gender identity” and how it impacts on what colleges you can apply to. There are two women’s colleges but both accept anyone who identifies as a woman!

This is from Murray Edwards:
“At the admissions level, we will consider any student who, at the point of application, identifies as a woman“

How can this still be allowed? It’s self ID too so has NEVER been legal for the purposes of the eqA.

I'm not sure the subject heading is correct. The colleges decide who they accept, not the university. As long as the university (as opposed to college) buildings have single-sex facilities and services where those are necessary, then the university isn't violating the SC ruling.

As regards the colleges, it's an interesting question to what extent the women's colleges are violating the SC ruling by accepting male students because it's up to them whether their student composition is single sex or mixed sex. The real issue arises if they are then also allowing male students to use the female students' loos and bathrooms or whether they are setting aside any loos and bathrooms for the use of a handful of male students who claim to "identify" as women that they might accept.

There are plenty of great mixed-sex colleges your daughter could apply to.

Realfastfoodie · 12/06/2026 08:50

Theeyeballsinthesky · 12/06/2026 08:32

Do you mean historically there have been men studying at these colleges wearing dresses and skirts and no one noticed because they passed sooo well?? I'm sure you can evidence that other than just your word otherwise we'll be treating that the same way we treat all the usual hyperbolic claims by TRA that men have been using all of women's spaces and places for literally ever and no one ever noticed ie total bullshit

I note as well that these claims are often made by people who have barely been alive more than 2 decades....

Well I’m more than 4 decades old. Not everyone agrees with you. I never post on these threads normally, mostly people who don’t want to be shouted at avoid them.

Realfastfoodie · 12/06/2026 08:48

BitingtheSkirting · 12/06/2026 08:41

Which decades?

There was Rachel Padman, but he was a fellow.

At least since the 90s, entirely possible before then, but I don’t have first hand experience of that

BunnyBunbunbun · 12/06/2026 08:43

TeachWithMissM · 11/06/2026 23:42

Newnham and Murray Edwards are both wonderful wonderful places that promote females in education and are hugely accepting of people from all backgrounds. They are also both built on the premise of making education accessible to people who have historically been disadvantaged due to gender. They are safe havens for people who may previously have felt unable to be themselves in education for fear of discrimination or even abuse. As a cis person, I never once felt threatened by any members of my college (which is one of these two) and would be much more upset at the thought of studying somewhere that excluded others who identify as females and quite frankly are significantly more marginalised and disadvantaged than myself. I don’t know any trans females at either (that’s not to say they aren’t there - just that the numbers are INCREDIBLY low and that their presence has never made an ounce of difference to anybody else’s life). The media is selling a belief that trans people are inherently dangerous but there is ZERO empirical peer-reviewed scientific evidence for this (and lots of evidence suggesting they are more likely to be victimised). The Newnham and Medwards communities voted on the issue and voted in favour of self-ID - the student body accept trans students and are happy to share their college with them

So, from what you're saying, Newnham and Murray Edwards are now mixed sex and no longer for female students only.

BitingtheSkirting · 12/06/2026 08:41

Realfastfoodie · 12/06/2026 08:23

@murasaki I’m an alumna of one of the women’s colleges too and I’m here to tell you that you clearly didn’t notice! There have been trans women students and faculty at Newnham for decades!

Edited

Which decades?

There was Rachel Padman, but he was a fellow.

yoursweetpotatoesarebland · 12/06/2026 08:40

So I’ve done a bit more reading and Murray Edwards seem to imply that because UCAS doesn’t collect sex data only gender identity- it isn’t possible to distinguish on the basis of sex.

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/why-we-have-written-to-ucas-about-data/

I don’t understand how this is still happening - I feel so naive!

Why we have written to UCAS about data

The latest attempt to destroy data on sex by replacing it with data on self-declared “gender identity” is in the higher-education system. The Universities

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/why-we-have-written-to-ucas-about-data/

OP posts:
SpudGunToo · 12/06/2026 08:35

TeachWithMissM · 11/06/2026 23:42

Newnham and Murray Edwards are both wonderful wonderful places that promote females in education and are hugely accepting of people from all backgrounds. They are also both built on the premise of making education accessible to people who have historically been disadvantaged due to gender. They are safe havens for people who may previously have felt unable to be themselves in education for fear of discrimination or even abuse. As a cis person, I never once felt threatened by any members of my college (which is one of these two) and would be much more upset at the thought of studying somewhere that excluded others who identify as females and quite frankly are significantly more marginalised and disadvantaged than myself. I don’t know any trans females at either (that’s not to say they aren’t there - just that the numbers are INCREDIBLY low and that their presence has never made an ounce of difference to anybody else’s life). The media is selling a belief that trans people are inherently dangerous but there is ZERO empirical peer-reviewed scientific evidence for this (and lots of evidence suggesting they are more likely to be victimised). The Newnham and Medwards communities voted on the issue and voted in favour of self-ID - the student body accept trans students and are happy to share their college with them

A lot of waffle that in no way explains why they feel able to ignore the law.

And no people have traditionally been discriminated against for their gender, as it’s not observable. People have been discriminated against because of their sex.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 12/06/2026 08:32

Realfastfoodie · 12/06/2026 08:23

@murasaki I’m an alumna of one of the women’s colleges too and I’m here to tell you that you clearly didn’t notice! There have been trans women students and faculty at Newnham for decades!

Edited

Do you mean historically there have been men studying at these colleges wearing dresses and skirts and no one noticed because they passed sooo well?? I'm sure you can evidence that other than just your word otherwise we'll be treating that the same way we treat all the usual hyperbolic claims by TRA that men have been using all of women's spaces and places for literally ever and no one ever noticed ie total bullshit

I note as well that these claims are often made by people who have barely been alive more than 2 decades....

Realfastfoodie · 12/06/2026 08:23

@murasaki I’m an alumna of one of the women’s colleges too and I’m here to tell you that you clearly didn’t notice! There have been trans women students and faculty at Newnham for decades!

nutmeg7 · 12/06/2026 08:19

TeachWithMissM · 11/06/2026 23:42

Newnham and Murray Edwards are both wonderful wonderful places that promote females in education and are hugely accepting of people from all backgrounds. They are also both built on the premise of making education accessible to people who have historically been disadvantaged due to gender. They are safe havens for people who may previously have felt unable to be themselves in education for fear of discrimination or even abuse. As a cis person, I never once felt threatened by any members of my college (which is one of these two) and would be much more upset at the thought of studying somewhere that excluded others who identify as females and quite frankly are significantly more marginalised and disadvantaged than myself. I don’t know any trans females at either (that’s not to say they aren’t there - just that the numbers are INCREDIBLY low and that their presence has never made an ounce of difference to anybody else’s life). The media is selling a belief that trans people are inherently dangerous but there is ZERO empirical peer-reviewed scientific evidence for this (and lots of evidence suggesting they are more likely to be victimised). The Newnham and Medwards communities voted on the issue and voted in favour of self-ID - the student body accept trans students and are happy to share their college with them

Historically disadvantaged due to their sex you mean.

Don’t twist words and history to suit your agenda. These colleges were set up for women. Biological women.

Not people ‘disadvantaged in some way by gender’.

Wishesandhorses · 12/06/2026 07:53

In fact men are so privileged that they can even take away places for actual women in a resource intended to help equality for women against the higher demands and priorities of men, and be indulged as special guest men at an all-women's college. The law entitles women to an inch of universe of their own.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 12/06/2026 07:45

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WhereAreWeNow · 12/06/2026 07:16

Isn't Newnham where Germaine Greer taught ? I think there is/was a trans (TIM) professor there too.
I imagine they're busy working out what the SC judgment and EHRC guidance mean for their policy. They might have to stop calling themselves women's colleges.
Presumably if a boy applied and was rejected on the grounds of sex, he would have a claim of sex discrimination if another boy who identified as a girl was considered eligible.

WaterThyme · 12/06/2026 07:06

I went to New Hall, now renamed Murray Edwards, as a shy, immature 18 year old. It was all-female and a badly needed safe space.

You occasionally saw a boyfriend, but that’s what he was - an occasional visitor attached to another woman. His presence overnight broke the rules so you could have easily had him removed.

Many of the undergraduate rooms are split level shared. The downstairs woman has no privacy from the upstairs one walking through to and from the shared entrance door. I have no idea how this has been resolved architecturally or whether Murray Edwards has a system in place to make sure shy immature 18 year olds don’t find themselves forced to share with a man claiming to be a woman.

I am appalled that Murray Edwards has fallen for the “most vulnerable“ line and lost its understanding of women’s needs in a still sexist society.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 12/06/2026 06:30

I love it when someone goes on about 'a long and fine tradition' and then proceeds to shit all over the said fine tradition.

And there's no such thing as 'cis'.

Mmmnotsure · 12/06/2026 01:05

NotNatacha · 12/06/2026 00:41

Section e of the document helpfully linked by @TeachWithMissM at 00:12 after you posted says
Newnham does not have a fixed intake of undergraduate and postgraduate students
and assesses eligible applications on the basis of academic criteria. Accordingly, the
admission of one applicant does not presuppose or require the rejection of another.

I’m not sure I wholly believe that. The college website says
all Newnham undergraduates live on site and are always close to their friends.
(followed by
Postgraduate students can choose dedicated graduate houses and flats nearby, with a lovely common room in College.)

They recently replaced part of their buildings on site: the new buildings in my opinion are beautiful. However, if I remember correctly, when they originally applied for planning permission they said that they need extra accommodation for students - despite letting out some of their existing off-site property on the open market.

If they accommodate all undergraduates on site there must be a limit to the number they can take.

That statement by Newnham is shocking, twisting language, truth and logic.

What a pity. All that history, and its place in the struggle for women to access education in their own right, thrown away because a handful of men want something.

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