Dozens of men discuss ignoring single sex space rules

Victorian prudery mostly.

Why do you think we have single sex space to begin with?

Maybe disabled toilets could have a big sign on them saying

THIS ACCESSIBLE TOILET IS FOR DISABLED PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY NEED THE ADAPTATIONS, IT IS NOT A CONSOLATION PRIZE OR A CHEAP WORKAROUND FOR ABLE-BODIED TRANSPEOPLE WHO CAN USE THE TOILET DESIGNATED FOR THEIR SEX BUT JUST CHOOSE NOT TO.

One reddit bloke says "I made a statutory declaration stating my intent to live as a woman for the rest of my life, and I plan to do so."

If he was really living as a woman, he'd be taking into account women's feelings, and certainly not trying to make woman feel uncomfortable.

But no, he's clearly continuing to live as a man, taking up space that he isn't entitled to no matter the consequences to others.

How many women have commited crimes since then? We have to share the toilets with them too.

How many women have commited crimes since then? We have to share the toilets with them too.

How many women have commited crimes since then? We have to share the toilets with them too.

If I'm a service provider who refuses someone entry to a female single sex service because I believe that person is male I don't need to prove their sex.

If that person wishes to sue me as a service provider it is them that needs to prove their sex in court.

I remember that. Quite a while ago.

How many trans identifying men have been convicted of male-pattern crimes since then?

Not equating the two obviously. Just interesting to see how one rare event some time ago is apparently very relevant when a TRA wants to prove that single sex spaces are bad for women, but other rare events that have happened more recently are firmly out of scope when it comes to women who are proving why single sex spaces must be single sex.

The guidance is pretty much null and void by the lack of a way to prove sex bit. Honestly, unless they brought in pants inspections, same sex toilets and changing rooms can't realistically be policed anyway. This was a question a lot of us have asked time and time again - okay, you want single-sex spaces...how do you prove what sex people are? Answer there came none, and so this is the situation we now have.

You’re right that if a man wants to assault a woman they will do so regardless of rules. However if the law is strictly enforced that men can’t go in a female toilets then maybe one going in stands out more and is more likely to be confronted/women will warn other women that there’s a man in there, etc.

The person I know who was raped in the toilets at a NT place was 11yo. It was a man who raped her. Not a trans person. Dressed like a man, looked like a man. He’d sneaked in unnoticed and hid in a cubicle. Was quiet and her parents let her go to the toilets on her own. I guess my point is that he had to sneak in. If anyone had seen him back then (this was a long time before trans became a thing), he’d have been stopped. Anyone would have felt confident to turf him out, go and report him, etc. So now someone wouldn’t need to worry about sneaking in unseen. It just makes it all more likely.

The guidance is pretty much null and void by the lack of a way to prove sex bit. Honestly, unless they brought in pants inspections, same sex toilets and changing rooms can't realistically be policed anyway. This was a question a lot of us have asked time and time again - okay, you want single-sex spaces...how do you prove what sex people are? Answer there came none, and so this is the situation we now have.

You’re right that if a man wants to assault a woman they will do so regardless of rules. However if the law is strictly enforced that men can’t go in a female toilets then maybe one going in stands out more and is more likely to be confronted/women will warn other women that there’s a man in there, etc.

The person I know who was raped in the toilets at a NT place was 11yo. It was a man who raped her. Not a trans person. Dressed like a man, looked like a man. He’d sneaked in unnoticed and hid in a cubicle. Was quiet and her parents let her go to the toilets on her own. I guess my point is that he had to sneak in. If anyone had seen him back then (this was a long time before trans became a thing), he’d have been stopped. Anyone would have felt confident to turf him out, go and report him, etc. So now someone wouldn’t need to worry about sneaking in unseen. It just makes it all more likely.

This new argument that, coincidentally, all TRA are using at once, proves that they know they dont pass.

If they passed they could just carry on, certain they wouldn't cause a fuss.

But they want it known that the system is unenforceable in different ways- no one on the door who can ask for id.

They arent just saying that to each other, TRA MPs are saying it in meetings to get the message out to women. They need women to think that they can't challenge a man when hes in a womens space.

Maybe disabled toilets could have a trans sign added to them for multi purpose use as they are a unisex space anyway.

You apparently didn't see the Mumsnet thread where someone posted a photo of the winner of a local women's race, claiming they were trans, which started an almighty pile on here and elsewhere, which was very distressing for the mother of 3 in question.

Mumsnet has to pull the thread and then the OP was obliged to start another one apologising.

Maybe disabled toilets could have a trans sign added to them for multi purpose use as they are a unisex space anyway.

Reasons why men follow women and girls into public toilets:

Men will beat them up in the gents.

They have every right to be there

No on can tell

Ok, you can tell, but you can't ask

Some pass, therefore every man should be allowed in

There are no police on the door

Women need a chance to compliment them on their hair.

Someone thought someone was trans, but they weren't.

They are going to do it anyway.

sure it’s easy to police in theory. But in practice?

would you really go up to someone in a bathroom and say i think you’re a man, prove you’re a woman if you want to stay here? I wouldn’t. I might just huff and tut.

And their coats/hats - don’t forget that. I know I am always complimenting other women on their hat when I’m in the toilets