Dozens of men discuss ignoring single sex space rules

Yes. The state of accessible facilities can be appalling. They need to be the best kept and most monitored. There’s a charity called Euan’s Guide that sells little cards you can put on the alarm pull cords to say please leave me down, because they can be left tied up a lot.

If people use accessible facilities they could be a help by making sure it’s left it a better state than they left for people less fortunate.

It has made me keep my toothbrush in a different spot 😁.

Seriously, the photos of some of the public toilets that have been closed down are horrendous. I have so much respect for the cleaners.

Wheelchair users have little option, and there's never a lid on the toilet either. 😖

Can we sort this out by saying we'll have the girly womanly female feminine dame spaces, and the frigid hateful bitches space? Label whatever is required, give women who want a single sex space the third spaces, they'll very gladly suck up the 'othering' and 'segregation' all day if it means a usable space without a man in it.

Except of course, this won't do for very obvious reasons that prove that accessible provision is not at all the desired goal of these men.

Oh my god. I always knew dryers were a bacteria breeding nightmare but never thought about them being in the cubicle making it worse. Right, that’s me stopping using the toilets at work.

I genuinely appreciate your research @Keeptoiletssafe. But some of the findings make me want to heave!

I'm not at all anxious about my health, but...flush plumes...eeeuuuwww

It’s scientifically proven with hospital studies internationally and here. One study put sensors on toilets and sinks and measured the difference between men and women.

The other looked at pathogens in hospitals here.

Another study looked at flush plumes with lasers. If you are in a unisex/universal toilet with a sink inside, the previous occupants flush plumes are on the sink and dryer. Another microbiologist found that because of microbes building up in wet warm filters, by using a hand dryer you may end up with more microbes on your hands than not using them at all. It’s much more hygienic to have sinks outside the toilet cubicle.

Here’s the uk hospital one:
salus.global/article-show/pathogen-findings-raise-concerns-about-move-to-unisex-hospital-facilities

I have never groomed myself in a public toilet. Not even reapplying lipstick. Mainly because they smell. If men are using them they’ll smell more because they piss on the floor and down the front of the porcelain.

women have no choice but to wipe up piss or sit in it. Or if they’re fit enough hover. I can’t hover. We have unisex toilets at work and they’re disgusting. I’m sick of my shoes being in piss, bottom of my trousers. The men will use their male privilege and stand so won’t care about piss on the seat. And add to the problem.

Yep, I saw that as well.

@TheHateUGive is welcome to talk through how they use the loo if they want to though. We can compare, contrast and critique. Scores for style, technique and originality.

Mate, can you really not think this through for yourself?

Firstly, time at the sinks isn't time taking up a cubicle so it's actually totally irrelevant anyway.

Now that's clear, back to the point.

Think through opening the flies, hoiking out the old fella, having a pee, tucking back, flushing if design applies, and (hopefully) washing up and walking out, and then think through the steps a woman will take to perform an equivalent evacuation.

Don't forget your handbag!

Are you hoping to get women to talk about what clothing they have to remove and how they go to the toilet?

Er...no thank you.

LOL.

You can wish it wasnt the case but this is what women are typically doing that takes so much longer.

How more clothes? You either have on undies and a skirt or trousers. Pretty much same as a man. What the hell are you wearing?

What i see women do in the toilets is spend ages at the sinks.

You know, I didn't mention the hands thing because I didn't want to make things confrontational by suggesting men are dirtier than women. But yeah, I thought it.

There are so many things wrong with this post I still haven’t captured them all. But another would be that women do usually wash their hands. Men are less likely to. It’s one reason why unisex toilets are much worse for women than single sex.

This is a good example of trying to get equity in toilets:

Network Rail’s recommends that 1 unit
(WC/urinal) be provided per 2500 -
3000 passengers of daily throughput.
Therefore, the recommended method
for calculating provision is as follows:
AM 3 hour peak x 4 = Daily peak Daily
peak / 3000 = T otal units required
The ‘AM 3 hour peak’ is the total number
of passenger entries/exits on a typical
weekday between 07:00 - 09:59.
The average time a person takes to use
the facilities should be taken as 1.5
minutes for women and 0.75 minutes
for men. [2] Therefore, assuming an equal
number of male and female users, there
should be twice as many female units
provided as male units.
To calculate the provision required for
female/male WC’s:
Total units required x 2/3 = Female
Units
Total units required x 1/3 = Male Units
These calculations are only for the
provision of separate-sex facilities;
unisex facilities should be provided in
addition to the calculated ‘total units
required’ (see section 2.4).
Further guidance on calculating
provision is available within BS6465-
4:2010, and BS6465-1:2006.

If anyone wanted an example of the breathtaking arrogance displayed by many men, it's the belief that, because it's hard to police the law, they will just go on breaking it. Male entitlement really is off the scale.

There are actual calculations of how quick men and women are in toilet cubicles for and this informs policy on different numbers of single sex toilets.

WTF???? I take it you aren't a woman then?

Even if we aren't wrangling kids, dealing with a period or faffing with grooming, we take longer because we need to get more of our clothes out of the way and because we need to wipe 🙄

Signed, a childfree post menopausal woman who hasn't worn makeup for at least a decade

Yes, testosterone can deepen the voice.....and that is one of the long term side effects, even after a woman has stopped taking it; but those who talk about women who are "tall and/or with short hair" being mistaken for men in the women's toilets, the reference is to women who simply have short hair etc. Unless a woman is on testosterone then her voice is going to be identifiably female.

And TBH, even with a depened voice there is usually something recognisably female in the intonation and expression of female voices.

Men will get a criminal record if they are doing an activity in a toilet used by the public, or a section of the public, that is reasonable to assume was a sexual activity. (Section 71, Sexual Offences Act, 2003). Look at the wording:
‘include only sexual activities that a reasonable person would take to be sexual without knowledge of the purpose of the person carrying out the activity’.

This is on them to prove the complainer was being unreasonable, not the provider.

Most women aren't in the toilets for a longer time than men because they are constantly menstruating. They spend time grooming themselves that men do not spend. Reapplying lipstick, tidying up hair, etc.

@Keeptoiletssafe Men building toilet rooms, centre the toilet in a cubicle. This is not useful for women who need the toilet centred after the sanitary bin is in. We need larger cubicles for having to undress and turn round.

Yes indeed. No one (well, no woman anyway) wants their thigh up against a sanitary bin while sitting on the loo.

Presumably it's also men who allocate the same floor space to men's and women's toilets, resulting in long queues for the ladies while the men just walk in, pee, and come back out again.

Yes, just do what the Queen says, kick 'em in the balls, I maybe paraphrasing a bit. 😂