Dozens of men discuss ignoring single sex space rules

Of course it's relevant, and people get it wrong frequently in the flesh as well, as we can see on this thread.

I've been surprised on more than one occasion by both transmen and transwomen, generally those who have transitioned at a younger age.

yes I’ve seen such threads - often as not quite a lot of the posts will be warning not to indulge in speculation on the basis of a photo.

Thats really not very relevant to whether we can usually accurately perceive someone’s sex in the flesh.

Pretty sure dogs can do it with their eyes shut.

One reddit bloke says "I made a statutory declaration stating my intent to live as a woman for the rest of my life, and I plan to do so."

If he was really living as a woman, he'd be taking into account women's feelings, and certainly not trying to make woman feel uncomfortable.

But no, he's clearly continuing to live as a man, taking up space that he isn't entitled to no matter the consequences to others.

Yes, and men from Reddit coming into a women's rights forum to scold the women - just another example of male entitlement.

DH, DS and various male friends are alert to the shenanigans of these men and are ready to politely but firmly challenge and report any such transgression to the relevant authorities.

...even dogs can sex people. Lots of dogs are scared of men.

You’re totally right. I’m female and I went out yesterday to walk the dog in a pair of jeans, a navy blue t shirt and no make-up. Naturally, every single person I met thought I was a man 🙄

Oh, wait! No, they didn’t! Despite my hair stuffed under a baseball cap and my tiny bust, every single person knew my sex. Bloody amazing, isn’t it? Almost as though we have an innate ability to correctly sex other humans.

Even babies can recognise men. There’s no need for genital inspections - it’s bloody obvious! The proof of this is that it worked just fine for decades (yes, without peering down people’s pants 🙄) and men stayed out of women’s toilets. It’s a social contract, and the only people who breach it are those who have made a genuine mistake or those who’ve actively chosen to override women’s boundaries.

You apparently didn't see the Mumsnet thread where someone posted a photo of the winner of a local women's race, claiming they were trans, which started an almighty pile on here and elsewhere, which was very distressing for the mother of 3 in question.

Mumsnet has to pull the thread and then the OP was obliged to start another one apologising.

Ah yes. The delusion that transwomen pass is strong with the Reddit boys.

God luv 'em.

No 'pants inspections' required. Sight and sound will do the job. With ease.

The whole thing boils down to "waaaah I don't WANNA! Don't WANNA and you can't make me!". Add foot stamps, jutting lower lip, and outraged crocodile tears, and you have a man being told to find a perfectly reasonable alternative to what he really really really wants to do. Because it's the law. And he's not three.

This is such a dumb argument. There are plenty of similar crimes that are difficult to catch in the moment but are still illegal. It is difficult to prove someone has shoplifted unless you confront them in the act and check their person. That doesn't mean we make shoplifting legal (interesting side note: California actually did make shoplifting somewhat legal for a time and it led to absolute chaos, which is why we don't just legalize criminal behavior even though it is difficult to police).

Being illegal and having criminal consequences is enough of a deterrent to stop most people who don't want to deal with the consequences of committing a petty crime, greatly reducing the behavior and victimhood. For the rest, they can be confronted by people who feel comfortable calling them out, bystanders can alert nearby police, they can be caught on video entering or leaving the facility, and once the ridiculous law allowing sex markers on ID is overturned (the natural next step after the Supreme Court ruling) checking ID will be all the proof anyone needs.

But like most crimes, it's pretty impossible to 100% stop the behavior. But that doesn't mean we legalize them. Can you imagine! And frankly I hope this makes you ask yourself, if you know the majority of women don't want you in their space and consider it a violation of their personhood, if you know it is illegal, if you know you can get arrested and face criminal consequences, and you are still so compelled to enter a women's bathroom that you go in anyway, I think you need to ask yourself what is it really that is compelling you to go in there... Bc I assure you its not just bc you need to go to the bathroom.

Ha, yes exactly. In a kind of "didn't he do well" way (said in a Bruce Forsyth voice)

"they'd probably compliment the transwoman on their hair"

'Ooh, I just love how you have used a fringe (that's bangs for the American visitors) to disguise you male pattern baldness'.

If a woman compliments a male in a female single-sex space and they aren’t taking the piss as above, then chaps you need to understand that you have been clocked and that the woman is fawning precisely because you are a bloke in the wrong space.

Breaking out the big guns today I see! 😁
We've had:

pants inspections
policing bathrooms
male toilet attendants
talk, broad shouldered woman with deep voice
how to prove what sex people are
if a man wants to assault a woman, he'll do it anyway
definitely seen transpeople who pass 100% [how did you know they were trans then?]
other women don't mind
"they'd probably compliment the transwoman on their hair"
"cis men "

This is just risible! Do they think we were born yesterday?

C'mon guys, invent a new excuse! We've heard all of these before, and the response is still "no, you can't use women's spaces." Grow up, obey the law, and you'll be fine.

I just popped over for a look. They'd better get used to being challenged. I do like the comment from the guy who says he doesn't use women's spaces because his brain is worried about being confronted - good, that is exactly what you and every other bloke (trans or not) is supposed to feel like, that's the point, you know you are doing something wrong and the worry and social stigma should stop you doing it. If you need more motivation than that you are obviously a predator.

As for some comments here 🙄 Imagine you see Pete, a manly man, in the ladies changing room. What would you do? Politely let him know he's in the ladies? Go and tell management if he refuses to leave? That's what you do any time you see a man in there, sorted.

Young, pretty, kind hearted me had no problem confronting men who threatened me or others. Now I’m in my battle axe era I don’t even have to shout at them any more, it’s not a problem for me.
And I wouldn’t be asking a man to prove he’s a woman, I’d be asking what the fuck he thought he was doing.

<waves too>

You’re right that if a man wants to assault a woman they will do so regardless of rules. However if the law is strictly enforced that men can’t go in a female toilets then maybe one going in stands out more and is more likely to be confronted/women will warn other women that there’s a man in there, etc.

The person I know who was raped in the toilets at a NT place was 11yo. It was a man who raped her. Not a trans person. Dressed like a man, looked like a man. He’d sneaked in unnoticed and hid in a cubicle. Was quiet and her parents let her go to the toilets on her own. I guess my point is that he had to sneak in. If anyone had seen him back then (this was a long time before trans became a thing), he’d have been stopped. Anyone would have felt confident to turf him out, go and report him, etc. So now someone wouldn’t need to worry about sneaking in unseen. It just makes it all more likely.

Diversion alert on.

FFS, there aren't any baths in public lavatories, just why? Excess of prudery?
Bit more of an argument for rest, after all one can have a sit down, but if forced to hover it is definitely not restful.

Diversion alert off.

"Just a heads up Mumsnet are discussing this post, in a thread rather ironically started by a man in a women's space. It's the usual cluster fuck of "we can always tell" plus posters openly admitting the point is to make our lives hard enough to deter transition."

<waves>

What's up guys? You don't like Mumsnet coming into "your space" and reading your comments?

Lots of men on that Reddit thread talking about feeling uncomfortable and worried about being shouted at. Where actual women are feeling too worried to use the toilets in case there’s a man in there and worried about being raped or sexually assaulted. Yes of course it’s not all men (transwomen) who would do this, only a very small minority but regardless it happens. I personally know someone who was raped by a total stranger in some women’s public toilets. So yeah forgive me if I don’t want men being in there.

None of them pass, we see them and we know who they are. They’re deluded if they think they do pass. We just don’t call them out because we are intimidated by their violence and aggression.

Isn't it weird how every single one of those blokes talking about ignoring the law, is actually admitting that they understand that as a male person they should not use female single-sex spaces?

Good and decent people will obey the law, they don't need 'policing'.

If someone doesn't want to use single-sex toilets for their sex, they will use the unisex options. They will (just like disabled people have done for a long time) take the availability of suitable toilet facilities into account when they plan trips out.

Let us remember that people with disabilities that require accessible facilities or toilets with hoists have no choice in the matter. People with trans identities have previously made an active choice to use opposite-sex facilities, riding roughshod over the rights of others. It is not unfair to ask these people to follow the law - as I said, there are unisex facilities available in many places.

All that is happening is that these men in the Reddit thread are outing themselves as selfish and not decent.

It isn't difficult. You just use the toilet that matches your sex - like we used to up until about 5 minutes ago. It is policed by public shame at entering the wrong facility. In this case public shame is doing the job it is meant to do - stopping the bad from doing bad by being policed by the good i.e. good men stay out so bad men stand out. Only bad actors want to invade women's sex based spaces.