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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women & Equalities Committee 2.30pm Today, 9th June, Mary-Ann Stephenson Chair at EHRC giving oral evidence

280 replies

TheNoWord · 09/06/2026 14:03

Work of the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) 20026-27 - Oral evidence, Mary-Ann Stephenson, Chair at Equality and Human Rights Commission and John Kirkpatrick, Chief Executive Officer at Equality and Human Rights Commission.

Considering the absolute balloons on this committee, it will be well worth a watch. Only Rosie Duffield and Rebecca Paul have any sense.

You can watch live on Parliament TV from 2.30pm

https://committees.parliament.uk/event/27280/formal-meeting-oral-evidence-session/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
RedToothBrush · 10/06/2026 08:05

I'd love every MP to be sent the Kavanagh thread. Perhaps it can be made into a TV comic skit. "People have been eyes" (and ears, because Lordy if you have bad eyesight you sure as hell get a second chance the second they speak. It's either the obviously fake baby voice or the booming Brian Blessed tones that give it away.)

Re wards.
The NHS have legal responsibilities to protect the privacy, dignity and safety of all parents. As part of this they are obligated to provide single sex wards. But and there is a but, they are allowed to break this rule in specific circumstances.

This you don't put a transwoman on a women's ward. You redesignate a ward as mixed and put them on that instead of you can not find a single bay or room.

I've had a lengthy discussion with my BIL in the past. He is a senior doctor at an NHS hospital who also is on the executive body. His duty of care is to provide single sex accommodation. However there's a massive caveat to this. He points out that some departments just are too specialist or small to have single sex wards in the first place though they do they best to protect dignity and privacy by how they arrange the ward. In this case a woman can easily end up on what is otherwise a male ward due to who happens to be in one that day. He also pointed out that A&E and intensive care are generally mixed anyway.

He pointed out that, particularly during COVID, they had situations where if there was a single man on a ward and spaces in the female ward they couldn't manage both (staff/financials/infection control reasons) so they had to close a ward and merge as a mixed ward. They are 'not allowed to do this' whilst there simultaneously is no actual significant sanction or penalty for doing. They have to write down the number of times the trust has breeched the single ward directive and then write something up to justify each incident of a breech. But other than that it's pretty much merely inconvenient paperwork and finances and staffing generally are the overriding factor.

So this conversation is really limited by the practicalities of the NHS which is already limited by the fact we have a ward system in the UK. On the ground it will probably make little difference because trans patients are often treated with kit gloves anyway and already given the preferential accommodation for their own dignity. This is really our biggest issue in the UK. Our hospitals are poorly designed in the first place with the convention towards communal areas. It's much more typical elsewhere in Europe and the US to have private rooms. The argument here is always that this is lonely or unsafe because staff can't keep an eye on multiple patients all at once. Somehow these other countries maintain comparable if not better safety records so I suspect there may be some issues with NHS staffing and funding generally...

So in many respects the whole debate over hospitals and single sex wards is a bit of a misnomer in the context of trans patients. The real conversation here is why the privacy and dignity of patients of both sexes is routinely not remotely considered by the NHS because they don't seem it a priority in the first place. There needs to be conversations at government level about when we build new hospitals there are legal requirements at the planning stage to make hospitals fit for purpose and in the 21st Century so we can phase out the problems regarding privacy and dignity full stop. This isn't even on the radar of most. Certainly if you asked an MP about the issue they unsurprisingly, given the standard on display at that committee) wouldn't be able to hold a meaningful or accurate conversation about the topic.

I don't see my BIL often but over the years he's let slip a few of these type of eye popping issues within the NHS. It highlights just how much they are creaking at the seems and hanging on by their fingernails generally. Single sex wards are way down the list of his concerns. And we wonder why there's so many sexual assaults in hospitals....

JustTryingToBeMe · 10/06/2026 07:56

RatWrangler · 09/06/2026 21:33

Of course I know that some men will assault other men. But do you really think that a man who has had a ton of surgery to look like Kardashian clone isn't going to be at increased risk? I personally do.

possibly, but if you make one exception where do you stop? The law is the law and it is up to the authorities to police it not up
to women to give up their hard-won rights.

ItsCoolForCats · 10/06/2026 07:52

The anecdote about the lorry driver no longer being able to use women's facilities (Emily ?) really showed the disconnect between the MPs on the committee and those of us from this board that were watching.

Whilst Rachel Taylor assumed we would all be terribly upset at the thought of Emily being prevented from using the women's showers, I'm sure we all had a pretty good mental picture of what "Emily" looked like and what Emily's attitudes were likely to be.

JustTryingToBeMe · 10/06/2026 07:51

toyl9876 · 09/06/2026 21:30

Oh bless you, you are absolutely furious, aren't you? Please take a deep breath

WE ARE ALL absolutely furious at your sense of entitlement. Girls and women have a legal
wright to single sex spaces. That is the law and should be the end of the discussion.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 10/06/2026 06:38

Hedgehogforshort · 09/06/2026 23:26

Jumped ahead as was late to this discussion.

first impression was that the make up of this committee has changed and was far more balanced than in the past.

I think that the big take away was that she identified that some MP’s did not distinguish between the law and the code. And offered seminars regarding this. 😂

I especially liked the story of the long term TIM lorry driver personage who was now in a predicament, as was clearly using women's shower facilities at the service stations.

do they have such facilities? cannot say i have ever noticed such provision.

In any case nobody mentioned the predicament of a woman in said mythological facilities.

thankfully Ann mentioned the knotty issue of 50% of the population being female.

I thought the CEO was quite good, and he grabbed the life line offered regarding prisons.

that he did not know about (tsk)

Motorway services do indeed sometimes offer showers for lorry drivers who sleep in their cabs. Yes, the cab has a proper sleeping surface installed.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 10/06/2026 06:30

Babyboomtastic · 09/06/2026 21:46

That's nuts. When my child had a long stay in hospital (very specialist area), the age range was newborn to 17 and 364 days! Not great for teenage boys and girls in the same room, but it was specialist enough that everyone just got on with it. People should be placed according to clinical need, not 'identities'.

Not great for teenage boys and girls in the same room

Safeguarding fail.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 10/06/2026 06:27

Karma2023 · 09/06/2026 21:41

As a "just about" teenager I had to go to hospital. I was deemed old enough for the adult ward so was put in with very elderly women. I certainly didn't identify with any of my ward buddies. I just had to get on with it. It wasn't a great experience for me but I didn't demand or expect a single room despite being not actially being adult.

I would say this experience was more difficult than an adult man who has lived as a man, sharing a space for a limited time with other men.

The reason I was on an adult ward, rather than children's ward was because of biology. I had started to menstruate so that was the determining factor. Biology should always take precedence in hospitals.

I'm horrified that menarche is the deciding factor because I would have been put on an adult ward at nine under such a regime.

TheyAreLovelyLovelyPeople · 10/06/2026 00:17

Very late to this.

Amused that the TIM posting on this thread is desperate for us wims and mummies to solve his problems. No thank you, to quote the amazing Sarah Robles. No. Thank. You.

Datun · 09/06/2026 23:59

I have to say, I'm rather enjoying the 'now we've won, we don't give even the smidge of a flying fuck what you do, mate', responses to the desperate and quite staggeringly entitled attempt to guilt trip women.

It's father funny, actually. Who in their right mind would ever think that women give a toss about TRA futile demands.

As somebody said up thread, get the denser-than-a-black-hole DEI team to start earning their massively over-inflated, and I suspect, soon to be a thing of the past, salary.

Hedgehogforshort · 09/06/2026 23:28

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 09/06/2026 23:19

"Potental impregnators 🚹"
"People who may become pregnant at some point 🚺"

Not exactly plain English nor suitable for children and people who speak English as a foreign language.

Potential wankers might be a step too far i guess….

Hedgehogforshort · 09/06/2026 23:26

Jumped ahead as was late to this discussion.

first impression was that the make up of this committee has changed and was far more balanced than in the past.

I think that the big take away was that she identified that some MP’s did not distinguish between the law and the code. And offered seminars regarding this. 😂

I especially liked the story of the long term TIM lorry driver personage who was now in a predicament, as was clearly using women's shower facilities at the service stations.

do they have such facilities? cannot say i have ever noticed such provision.

In any case nobody mentioned the predicament of a woman in said mythological facilities.

thankfully Ann mentioned the knotty issue of 50% of the population being female.

I thought the CEO was quite good, and he grabbed the life line offered regarding prisons.

that he did not know about (tsk)

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 09/06/2026 23:19

FlirtsWithRhinos · 09/06/2026 20:48

By definition, trans people do not believe their physical sex is the seat of their identity as a "woman" or "man".

So why does it matter what sex you are accomodated with? Since you aren't less of a woman in your own eyes just because your body is male, why should being with other male bodied people be an issue for your womanhood?

If it's the sign on the door not saying "woman" that's the problem, it's a simple fix to change the sign to say "male people of all genders" or even "male men and women".

"Potental impregnators 🚹"
"People who may become pregnant at some point 🚺"

Not exactly plain English nor suitable for children and people who speak English as a foreign language.

LazyFoxy · 09/06/2026 23:09

murasaki · 09/06/2026 22:52

Its rather odd that all the TiMs who venture into FWR have had the chop, given such small percentage of them do overall. Possibly unbelievably odd.

If they are all the same person, it is possible
(they're not, are they?)

LazyFoxy · 09/06/2026 23:08

The posters on the reddit thread linked above seem to have watched a different meeting, are outraged and are also loving Nadia Whittome
Sad times

HenriettaSwanLeavitt · 09/06/2026 23:02

MyAmpleSheep · 09/06/2026 22:23

Careful. Next we’ll hear how transphobia it is to banish trans identifying people against their will to those hateful side rooms.

the problem here is that people’s expectations of what they deserve in hospitals are all wildly inflated.

#segregation

murasaki · 09/06/2026 22:52

Its rather odd that all the TiMs who venture into FWR have had the chop, given such small percentage of them do overall. Possibly unbelievably odd.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 09/06/2026 22:49

toyl9876 · 09/06/2026 21:50

Of course you are, champ 😘

You must be more annoyed, sir, that the TRAs have entirely lost the war.

lock. Stock. Done. Dusted. It’s over.

and there was much celebrating.

PaterPower · 09/06/2026 22:48

toyl9876 · 09/06/2026 21:15

I think your response might be peak Mumsnet. It is staggeringly cruel and dishonest.

You don’t care about practical solutions or dignity. I’m getting the impression cruelty is the point. Why do you think we shouldn’t have an alternative space?

Because you (assuming you’ve gone all the way to create an artificial wound in your groin) represent something like 0.2% of the general population. And that’s probably on the generous side.

Why should ‘we’ (representing the rest of the tax paying public) have to stump the additional money up to accommodate such a niche segment of society? The NHS is already stretched, without pandering to someone’s perceived lack of dignity. Real indignity is lying on a trolley in a corridor for 30 hours (as happened to an elderly relative 8 months ago) and being forced to relieve yourself into a bed pan.

If we’re going to start throwing the money around, I’d much rather they sort out maternity services at places like Nottingham or Chester. Or stump up the cash that victims of the blood products scandal should have had 40 years ago. Separate bed spaces for the gender disorientated should be VERY far down the list.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 09/06/2026 22:45

toyl9876 · 09/06/2026 17:30

I actually don’t want to say that because I don’t believe that is the right thing. As much as I know I’d be no harm of a women’s ward, I know I can’t speak for all trans women so exclusion is necessary.

The solution is for the NHS to build a lot more individual rooms. Separate wards would be impractical because you’d have to build a trans woman and trans man ward because it would be mixed sex provision otherwise.

Open wards make nursing a lot easier and safer for staff and patients.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 09/06/2026 22:41

toyl9876 · 09/06/2026 17:14

I didn’t say the solution was to put the infectious patient on the female ward or put the trans woman on the ward. The only thing I am saying is that the solution isn’t to put the trans woman on the male ward.

Fire the DEI team and convert their office into ward space. Space problem alleviated.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 09/06/2026 22:36

toyl9876 · 09/06/2026 16:45

And as another member said side rooms would sometimes be needed for people with infections. What happens when an alternative space isn’t available?

I'm autistic, so an open ward is sensory hell for me. If the side room is needed for a transplant recipient to prevent them from catching an infection that their suppressed immune system can't fight off, then onto the open ward I must go, because their need trumps mine.

The same logic should apply to the long-transitioned male being placed on the male ward.

murasaki · 09/06/2026 22:25

I got a side room (repurposed cupboard, no window) when I was in with dvt during the covid times, and it was great. Well not great, but better than the alternative.

MyAmpleSheep · 09/06/2026 22:23

HenriettaSwanLeavitt · 09/06/2026 22:10

I've actually had a separate room in hospital twice and absolutely hated it. I was bored, scared and lonely, and was thrilled when I was pronounced well enough to join the rest of the ward.

Careful. Next we’ll hear how transphobia it is to banish trans identifying people against their will to those hateful side rooms.

the problem here is that people’s expectations of what they deserve in hospitals are all wildly inflated.

TheodoreisntBeth · 09/06/2026 22:18

murasaki · 09/06/2026 21:43

I had that, at 15. It was horrid as I woke up after an eye operation only able to see out of one of them , and woozy from the anaesthetic, and thought I was surrounded by death.

It was still the correct place for me to be.

This. In my Trust, over 16s go on adult wards.

I've known 16 year old boys who are still at secondary school have to share an 8 bed bay with older men, if there are no side rooms available. I doubt they felt more comfortable than the current iteration of emotional blackmail and male entitlement identifying as reasonable trans claims to, they likely would have been much more comfortable in a side room with their mum on a fold up bed, but they had to crack on.

It's just like in prisons, young men, old men, gay men, small men, disabled men, weak men, transIDing men all belong in the men's provision, because they're all men. No one thinks 'something will have to be done, this cash strapped service will have to make new special provisions for those men who might be distressed to share with other men', do they? No, this is just the latest version of 'trans are super special and must have better'.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 09/06/2026 22:17

Shortshriftandlethal · 09/06/2026 16:26

The chair seems to think that because " women are unsafe walking around any public space" then why should that be any different when it come to established single sex facilities. Can she even hear herself?

A variant of that argument goes "male prison guards rape female prisoners, so let's let male prisoners into the women's prison too".