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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How to respond he/she?

339 replies

Manchesteruser · 06/06/2026 00:00

Out with friends. One friend's son has a TIM friend. Obviously male but fake boobs and wearing a dress, about 25. Everyone refers to him 'as she'. I asked one, 'why do you refer to him as 'her/she' rather than 'he' and was told that that was what he prefers.

How would you have responded?

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TransParentlyAnnoyed · 07/06/2026 20:29

Naunet · 07/06/2026 16:50

Abusing?! If you think calling a man 'he' is abuse, you've led an extremely privileged, charmed life.

Nope. I'm a working-class cis woman living on carer's allowance who objects to people being transphobic, hi there. We are legion.

Bertiebiscuit · 07/06/2026 20:19

There are only males and females. Males are "he" and females are "she". It's really easy. "trans" is an ideology, so therefore not real, just a belief system thst anyone can choose not to believe in.

TheKeatingFive · 07/06/2026 19:04

Zoonosis · 07/06/2026 18:37

Most women wouldn't find it "rude" but most women aren't terribly fragile creatures who can't possibly spend the evening being basically civil to a trans person.

Why do you think it's 'civil' to lie about what sex someone is?

Zoonosis · 07/06/2026 18:37

SecretSquirrelLoo · 07/06/2026 18:10

Isn’t a man wearing fake boobs and wanting to be called ‘she’ being just a little bit rude to women?

Most women wouldn't find it "rude" but most women aren't terribly fragile creatures who can't possibly spend the evening being basically civil to a trans person.

SecretSquirrelLoo · 07/06/2026 18:10

Isn’t a man wearing fake boobs and wanting to be called ‘she’ being just a little bit rude to women?

Helleofabore · 07/06/2026 17:08

DialSquare · 07/06/2026 15:42

Fuck me, that was a quick deletion. I’d barely finished reading it. Someone’s got their fingers on the report button.

As for incorrect pronouns, “I’d rather be rude than a fucking liar”.

Yep.

I too would rather be rude than a fucking liar.

MagpiePi · 07/06/2026 17:04

SwirlyGates · 07/06/2026 17:02

It's avoidable, mostly, though not always easy. But that still requires policing your own language rather than saying what comes naturally to you. "Think it through first" isn't how conversation goes, really, and it shouldn't have to. It's an increase in mental load and in my case often leads to me not bothering to say anything.

…which is exactly what is wanted. Join in the affirmation or shut up.

SwirlyGates · 07/06/2026 17:02

sontamol · 07/06/2026 16:58

Or "Barry, did you hear about Anne's new job?" Anne, tell Barry about your new job.

Look I'm probably nit picking, and I know it can happen as you described, but still, it's avoidable if someone doesn't want to use "she". Just have to think it through first!

It's avoidable, mostly, though not always easy. But that still requires policing your own language rather than saying what comes naturally to you. "Think it through first" isn't how conversation goes, really, and it shouldn't have to. It's an increase in mental load and in my case often leads to me not bothering to say anything.

sontamol · 07/06/2026 16:58

SwirlyGates · 07/06/2026 16:15

Happens all the time.

3 people present - Jane, Barry, Anne.

Jane: Barry, did Anne tell you she's got a new job?
or
Jane: Barry, did Anne tell you about her new job?

Or "Barry, did you hear about Anne's new job?" Anne, tell Barry about your new job.

Look I'm probably nit picking, and I know it can happen as you described, but still, it's avoidable if someone doesn't want to use "she". Just have to think it through first!

Naunet · 07/06/2026 16:50

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 06/06/2026 02:46

It's about being abusive, not disrespectful.

After my mum remarried (50 years or so back) certain people refused to call her by her new surname. Some wouldn't speak to her at all, and one born-again Christian mum of one of my friends told me she'd burn in hell for being divorced. I'll let you imagine how they treated a local lesbian couple who had kids.

Abusing people is always a choice, however you choose to excuse it.

I'd suggest you take some time to get to know your friend's friend, and realise they're a perfectly normal person who happens to be trans. Once you get to know them, you'll find it second-nature to use her name and pronouns, because you'll see her as a person. you

This really is your problem, not hers. It's worth trying to overcome it for your own sake.

Abusing?! If you think calling a man 'he' is abuse, you've led an extremely privileged, charmed life.

SwirlyGates · 07/06/2026 16:15

sontamol · 07/06/2026 15:41

I must be missing something, but I can't figure out how anyone would be referred to as he or she in company with that person. Surely you would name them as you address them, or are people breaking off and saying things about the person, thus the "she" reference?

If I am missing a point here, could someone give me an example of this.

Happens all the time.

3 people present - Jane, Barry, Anne.

Jane: Barry, did Anne tell you she's got a new job?
or
Jane: Barry, did Anne tell you about her new job?

DialSquare · 07/06/2026 15:42

Fuck me, that was a quick deletion. I’d barely finished reading it. Someone’s got their fingers on the report button.

As for incorrect pronouns, “I’d rather be rude than a fucking liar”.

sontamol · 07/06/2026 15:41

I must be missing something, but I can't figure out how anyone would be referred to as he or she in company with that person. Surely you would name them as you address them, or are people breaking off and saying things about the person, thus the "she" reference?

If I am missing a point here, could someone give me an example of this.

Cailin66 · 07/06/2026 15:37

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Bertiebiscuit · 07/06/2026 12:39

Given that we don't really inhabit the world of 1984 Big Brother, (not quite anyway), I will not kowtow to lies and deceit, and I refuse to be an enabler or audience to male fetishes, given that they harm women and girls. I have never called a man "she" nor will i ever. Literally the hill i would die on.

Bertiebiscuit · 07/06/2026 12:29

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 07/06/2026 07:55

Hope that made you feel better, hun. And that your life improves.

Wow! Patronising much

Lovelyview · 07/06/2026 11:21

AStonedRose · 06/06/2026 11:03

This is predicated on the idea that being trans is a choice, which is again, transphobic in itself.

I bet in your mind being gay's a choice too?

Edited

Being gay is a sexuality which is widely agreed to be developed during childhood/ adolescence and unlikely to change (my daughter is a lesbian btw). Being 'trans' is an identity widely regarded as fluid (hence detransitioners and people changing their gender identity repeatedly). Being gay doesn't require hormones, surgery and society to rearrange itself around your belief system. Being trans is a mental illness/dysphoria which demands medical intervention to affirm the illness not psychological counselling to resolve the dysphoria. It has resulted in the mutilation of thousands of children and young adults over the past 10-15 years through the administration of powerful drugs and surgical alteration of their bodies. The outcomes are not good. It has been seized on by fetishistic men who enjoy violating women's boundaries. Transgenderism is a horror and the op has every right to not want to affirm someone's delusions.

SwirlyGates · 07/06/2026 10:48

@TransParentlyAnnoyed basically, you want society to be reorganised around the wishes of your child. That's not how life works.

TheKeatingFive · 07/06/2026 09:31

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 07/06/2026 04:30

Mate, I lived through the 80s. Right wingers complaining that gay people had "stolen that word" was the least of it.

Your objections to trans people using the pronouns which describe them aren't anything other than recycled bigotry.

Complete nonsense

Pronouns have always been used to indicate sex.

To confuse that causes problems for women - are people incapable of thinking through second order consequences?

Take this example. Imagine a trans-identifying man who accesses the women's changing rooms. Two different ways of describing the same event

She went into the women's changing rooms and took her clothes off in front of the women present ('preferred' pronouns)

He went into the women's changing rooms and took his clothes off in front of the women present (correct sex pronouns).

If you came across those sentences in a news report, they'd evoke very different reactions, right?

Now tell me, which one actually conveys what's happening clearly? Which one is most useful for safeguarding the women in question?

Tablesandchairs23 · 07/06/2026 09:22

Bertiebiscuit · 07/06/2026 08:58

"lovely" men don't go about pretending to be women

Obviously they do. As some women dress as mine.

MagpiePi · 07/06/2026 09:03

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 07/06/2026 04:30

Mate, I lived through the 80s. Right wingers complaining that gay people had "stolen that word" was the least of it.

Your objections to trans people using the pronouns which describe them aren't anything other than recycled bigotry.

The pronouns that describes a man who says or thinks he is a woman are he, him and his.

Trans people can misgender themselves till the cows come home, but nobody else is obliged to play along.

Bigotry, which is defined as intolerance and prejudice, is equally applicable to all those demanding that everyone must act as though they believe humans can change sex.

Bertiebiscuit · 07/06/2026 08:58

Tablesandchairs23 · 06/06/2026 07:13

You said this person was lovely. Call them by their name and don't be judgemental.

"lovely" men don't go about pretending to be women

rocer · 07/06/2026 08:35

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 06/06/2026 17:39

Depends. If I knew of you as someone who called themselves All-Knowing, I'd find that quietly amusing.

But in company, because I'm not a rude, bigoted person wishing to be abusive to anyone, I'd call you Al.

p.s. Well done for missing my point. The people abusing my mum and the lesbian couple thought they were against nature, and pretending to be something they weren't.

To them, it was obvious that my mum was a terrible person who'd chosen an unrighteous path - and that gay people couldn't be in relationships.

Comparing being trans with arrogance, showing off and selfishness is bigotry, I'm afraid. Try educating yourself, meeting some trans people and stop pronouncing on stuff you don't understand.

It seems you don't really understand.

But, well, I'm not really interested in swapping abuse. I did smile at "Try educating yourself". I'm sorry you feel so bitter.

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 07/06/2026 07:55

Grammarnut · 07/06/2026 07:54

his name.

Hope that made you feel better, hun. And that your life improves.

Grammarnut · 07/06/2026 07:54

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 06/06/2026 02:33

I'd have been polite, respectful and used her name.

It's really not difficult to be a decent person and not abuse strangers in public.

his name.

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